From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail.zytor.com (terminus.zytor.com [198.137.202.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A81314C80; Thu, 1 May 2025 03:32:18 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.137.202.136 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1746070342; cv=none; b=oUgdpqxUH3w8/Bvp04HZqB2vOWCexAr2mgiH73CXkMu9nwIMQZkuQT2HR0/Qq8rV4mFq4s7ZQfKO9SVDIXWn+0L9v0H0GKY/KvHx9o8n3syRAQeM1bwqfIPLjJ1i5if7OfGU+kYY0lo2r2CaW2dz9YyT3eNoCiOAx3SgxTQSE5E= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1746070342; c=relaxed/simple; bh=fRMZdEm7fOJ8v4QMbXUj8vea++1ipKTKHFyioNAwYaw=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=g6MQ8LVDfaOgm/TSzMNveFKiDlVwGiuQJwcDZwc0NLeS3AAWTA4PNHdOGFlvi+Dsp4jivWgzB3K9+5TTZ3oFfhOetDX89hP7Tv2cfQholjVdcc2TnPavjnqWRMHyXlzAgOF6txjZ0rzOqmxElVXv1Od5PBLaWPXuMiI2ZtQA8CM= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=zytor.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=zytor.com; dkim=fail (2048-bit key) header.d=zytor.com header.i=@zytor.com header.b=Cq5CnQfu reason="signature verification failed"; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.137.202.136 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=zytor.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=zytor.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=zytor.com header.i=@zytor.com header.b="Cq5CnQfu" Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([76.133.66.138]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.zytor.com (8.18.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 5413W3Ga1206913 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 30 Apr 2025 20:32:04 -0700 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mail.zytor.com 5413W3Ga1206913 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zytor.com; s=2025042001; t=1746070325; bh=wZ8hCQkM3wsEnq2HUgkkQULMcmqkfBTaRw1XvFt2KG4=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Cq5CnQfumMQgV/QuJlPOpMFFl3/hdCSTtri7CsWNwhcJ78uojh9NbSgAJPCeA5CCi kzL0HT7n4URyLjbruVPu/4HLsSkEsmpdiSg9gg7H+CQ+Fz8ghHX3WcINt3y3/SnoLz gzIQZrq/S1ru3Wb+nQMlHk8ynljGXBi2xcchb4uv+UryTVux1VIoziPxS9g/iYt/TS pxjT+Z7UZeyEWMj84CTHl1ABDIie/2+IGzJFs7topZwUZiCZNzJhqPouYyEfNs65wl KwqjRGbO6xjeHrbYaTnyLdx7Hl1FdLip3zqj1BSeNJ/koUkur53dJFz6YBdofU2VOD esZ+xdGZIuyjQ== Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 20:32:03 -0700 From: "H. Peter Anvin" To: Linus Torvalds CC: "Theodore Ts'o" , Kent Overstreet , linux-bcachefs@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] bcachefs fixes for 6.15-rc4 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <20250425195910.GA1018738@mit.edu> Message-ID: <114E260B-7AC4-4F5D-BBC4-60036CC7188F@zytor.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On April 30, 2025 8:12:20 PM PDT, Linus Torvalds wrote: >On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 19:48, H=2E Peter Anvin wrote: >> >> It is worth noting that Microsoft has basically declared their >> "recommended" case folding (upcase) table to be permanently frozen (for >> new filesystem instances in the case where they use an on-disk >> translation table created at format time=2E) As far as I know they hav= e >> never supported anything other than 1:1 conversion of BMP code points, >> nor normalization=2E > >So no crazy '=C3=9F' matches 'ss' kind of thing? (And yes, afaik that's >technically wrong even in German, but afaik at least sorts the same in >some locales)=2E > >Because yes, if MS basically does a 1:1 unicode translation with a >fixed table, that is not only "simpler", I think it's what we should >strive for=2E > >Because I think the *only* valid reason for case insensitive >filesystems is "backwards compatibility", and given that, it's >_particularly_ stupid to then do anything more complicated and broken >than the thing you're trying to be compatible with=2E > >I hope to everything holy that nobody ever wants to be compatible with >the absolute garbage that is the OSX HFS model=2E > >Because the whole "let's actively corrupt names into something that is >almost, but not exactly, NFD" stuff is just some next-level evil >stuff=2E > > Linus > I suspect the NFD bit in HFS comes from the use of decomposed characters i= n the 8-bit character systems of MacOS Classic=2E