public inbox for linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Bjoern Brandenburg <bbb@email.unc.edu>
Cc: Harald Gustafsson <hgu1972@gmail.com>,
	Raistlin <raistlin@linux.it>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Song Yuan <song.yuan@ericsson.com>,
	Dmitry Adamushko <dmitry.adamushko@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Nicola Manica <nicola.manica@disi.unitn.it>,
	Luca Abeni <lucabe72@email.it>,
	Claudio Scordino <claudio@evidence.eu.com>,
	Harald Gustafsson <harald.gustafsson@ericsson.com>,
	bastoni@cs.unc.edu, Giuseppe Lipari <lipari@retis.sssup.it>
Subject: Re: periods and deadlines in SCHED_DEADLINE
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:34:58 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1280777698.1923.345.camel@laptop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <B4F5A462-AE78-4BF0-B66E-4A5949A4A519@email.unc.edu>

On Sun, 2010-07-11 at 09:32 +0200, Bjoern Brandenburg wrote:

> Trying to infer whether a task is "hard" or "soft" from task
> parameters is not a good idea, IMO. It's much better to make this an
> explicit part of the task model that is configured via sched_setparam.
> By default, tasks should be marked "soft" (this leaves more wiggle
> room to the kernel); users who care can change the flag to "hard".

I think we're in violent agreement here ;-) and I was convinced that was
what we were talking about. The question was only how to represent that
in the sched_param_ex structure, the options were:

 struct sched_param_ex params;

 params.flags |= SF_SOFT;
 sched_setscheduler_ex( .policy = SCHED_DEADLINE, .param = &params);

vs

 sched_setscheduler_ex( .policy = SCHED_DEADLINE_{SOFT,HARD}, 
                        .param = &params);

> Taking a step back, I think the problem here is that we are trying to
> shove too many concepts and properties into a single scheduler. Hard
> (no tardiness) is different from soft (bounded tardiness) is different
> from global is different from partitioned.
> 
> From my point of view, it makes no sense to support hard deadlines
> under G-EDF (this is backed up by our schedulability studies [1]).
> Hard deadlines are best served by a P-EDF implementation (that only
> migrates on task creation/admission).
> 
The problem is more that we need to support things like cpu affinity and
cpusets within the context of a 'global' scheduler.

Using cpusets we can partition the 'load-balancer' and create clusters
(root-domains in linux scheduler speak).

Using cpu affinity we can limit tasks to a subset of their cluster's
cpus.

Esp. the latter is very hard to do, and I think we can get away with
only allowing a single cpu or the full cluster (its a new policy, so
there is no existing userspace to break).

This ends up meaning we need to support both P-EDF and G-EDF for soft,
and since we want to re-use pretty much all the code and only have a
different admission test for hard (initially), it would end up also
being P/G-EDF for hard (even though as you rightly point out, hard G-EDF
is pretty pointless -- but since the policy doesn't promise EDF, we
could later improve it to be PD^2 or whatever, at which point global
hard does start to make sense).

(which I guess would suggest we use different policies instead of a
flag, since that would make most sense if we end up replacing the hard
part with another policy)

So what I want to have is a sporadic task scheduler, not an EDF
scheduler (hence also the request to s/SCHED_EDF/SCHED_DEADLINE/ --
avoiding the obvious SCHED_SPORADIC in order to avoid confusion with the
POSIX thing).

EDF is just the easiest of the many different ways to schedule a
sporadic task set.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-08-02 19:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-07-09 13:38 periods and deadlines in SCHED_DEADLINE Raistlin
2010-07-09 14:18 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-07-09 14:51   ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-07-09 16:35     ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-07-10  9:01       ` Raistlin
2010-07-10 10:28         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-07-10 14:49           ` Raistlin
2010-07-11  6:42         ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-08-03  9:41           ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-08-04  3:52             ` Andrea Bastoni
2010-08-04  7:14               ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-08-04  5:18             ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-08-03  9:46           ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-08-04  3:53             ` Andrea Bastoni
2010-08-04  5:02             ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-07-10  7:08     ` Raistlin
2010-07-11  6:46       ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-08-03  8:16         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-08-03 11:42           ` Gregory Haskins
2010-08-04  6:30           ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-07-09 14:24 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-07-10  7:11   ` Luca Abeni
2010-07-10 10:36     ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-07-11  6:12       ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-07-09 14:30 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-07-10  9:14   ` Raistlin
2010-07-10 17:19   ` Harald Gustafsson
2010-07-10 18:31     ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-07-10 20:08       ` Harald Gustafsson
2010-07-10 21:52         ` Raistlin
2010-07-11  5:41           ` Harald Gustafsson
2010-07-11  7:32         ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-07-12 10:21           ` Harald Gustafsson
2010-08-04  5:55             ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-08-02 19:34           ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2010-08-04  4:44             ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-07-09 14:32 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-07-10  7:50   ` Raistlin
2010-07-10 15:11     ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-07-10 17:29       ` Harald Gustafsson
2010-07-11  6:15     ` Bjoern Brandenburg
2010-07-10  7:09 ` Luca Abeni
2010-07-10  9:20   ` Raistlin

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=1280777698.1923.345.camel@laptop \
    --to=peterz@infradead.org \
    --cc=bastoni@cs.unc.edu \
    --cc=bbb@email.unc.edu \
    --cc=claudio@evidence.eu.com \
    --cc=dmitry.adamushko@gmail.com \
    --cc=harald.gustafsson@ericsson.com \
    --cc=hgu1972@gmail.com \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=lipari@retis.sssup.it \
    --cc=lucabe72@email.it \
    --cc=nicola.manica@disi.unitn.it \
    --cc=raistlin@linux.it \
    --cc=song.yuan@ericsson.com \
    --cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox