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From: "J. R. Okajima" <hooanon05@yahoo.co.jp>
To: Neil Brown <neilb@suse.de>
Cc: Valerie Aurora <vaurora@redhat.com>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu>, Jan Blunck <jblunck@suse.de>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 14/39] union-mount: Union mounts documentation
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:51:52 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <13447.1281491512@jrobl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100810085641.2b9a714c@notabene>


Neil Brown:
> I wonder if the restriction is not more serious than this.
> Given the prevalence of "copy-up", particularly of directories, I would think
> that even off-line upgrade would not be supported.
> If the upgrade adds a file in a directory that has already been read (and
> hence copied-up), or changes a file that has been chmodded, then the upgrade
> will not be completely visible, which sounds dangerous.
	:::
> I see two block-layer solutions.  The obvious is a COW block device as you
> have mentioned.  I am not convinced that it is as bad as you think.
	:::

DM snapshot provides the COW block feature and it will match your idea
since the size of COW device is much smaller genearally. But it doesn't
support off-line upgrade either. If you do, it is equivalent to corrupt
filesystem for DM snapshot device.

Here is pros/cons of DM snapshot comparing a union.
- the number of bytes to be copied between devices is much smaller.

- the type of filesystem must be one and only.
- the fs must be writable, no readonly fs, even for the lower original
  device. so the compression fs will not be usable. but if we use
  loopback mount, we may address this issue.
  for instance,
	mount /cdrom/squashfs.img /sq
	losetup /sq/ext2.img
	losetup /somewhere/cow
	dmsetup "snapshot /dev/loop0 /dev/loop1 ..."

- it will be difficult (or needs more operations) to extract the
  difference between the original device and COW.

- DM snapshot-merge may help a lot when users try merging. in the
  fs-layer union, users will use rsync(1).

- in fs-based union, users can add/remove members(layer) dynamicall
  without unmounting. of course, all files on the removing layer should
  not be busy.


Also here is my concern about UnionMount. All these issues have been
reported before.
- for users, the inode number may change silently. eg. copy-up.
- link(2) may break by copy-up.
- read(2) may get an obsoleted filedata (fstat(2) too).
- fcntl(F_SETLK) may be broken by copy-up.
- unnecessary copy-up may happen, for example mmap(MAP_PRIVATE) after
  open(O_RDWR).


J. R. Okajima

  reply	other threads:[~2010-08-11  2:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-08-08 15:52 [PATCH 00/39] Union mounts - return d_ino from lower fs Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 01/39] VFS: Comment follow_mount() and friends Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 02/39] VFS: Make lookup_hash() return a struct path Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 03/39] VFS: Add read-only users count to superblock Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 04/39] autofs4: Save autofs trigger's vfsmount in super block info Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 05/39] whiteout/NFSD: Don't return information about whiteouts to userspace Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 06/39] whiteout: Add vfs_whiteout() and whiteout inode operation Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 07/39] whiteout: Set opaque flag if new directory was previously a whiteout Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 08/39] whiteout: Allow removal of a directory with whiteouts Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 09/39] whiteout: tmpfs whiteout support Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 10/39] whiteout: Split of ext2_append_link() from ext2_add_link() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 11/39] whiteout: ext2 whiteout support Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 12/39] whiteout: jffs2 " Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 13/39] fallthru: Basic fallthru definitions Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 14/39] union-mount: Union mounts documentation Valerie Aurora
2010-08-09 22:56   ` Neil Brown
2010-08-11  1:51     ` J. R. Okajima [this message]
2010-08-17 20:44     ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-17 22:53       ` Neil Brown
2010-08-18  0:15         ` Luca Barbieri
2010-08-18 19:04         ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-18  1:23       ` J. R. Okajima
2010-08-18 18:55         ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-19  1:34           ` J. R. Okajima
2010-08-24  0:05             ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-24  2:28               ` J. R. Okajima
2010-08-24 20:48                 ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-25  2:59                   ` Christian Stroetmann
2010-08-25  5:03                   ` J. R. Okajima
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 15/39] union-mount: Introduce MNT_UNION and MS_UNION flags Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 16/39] union-mount: Introduce union_dir structure and basic operations Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 17/39] union-mount: Free union dirs on removal from dcache Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 18/39] union-mount: Support for union mounting file systems Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 19/39] union-mount: Implement union lookup Valerie Aurora
2010-08-13 13:49   ` Miklos Szeredi
2010-08-17 21:44     ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-18  8:11       ` Miklos Szeredi
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 20/39] union-mount: Call do_whiteout() on unlink and rmdir in unions Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 21/39] union-mount: Copy up directory entries on first readdir() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 22/39] union-mount: Add generic_readdir_fallthru() helper Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 23/39] fallthru: ext2 fallthru support Valerie Aurora
2010-08-13 13:52   ` Miklos Szeredi
2010-08-17 21:08     ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-17 22:28     ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 24/39] fallthru: jffs2 " Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 25/39] fallthru: tmpfs " Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 26/39] VFS: Split inode_permission() and create path_permission() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 27/39] VFS: Create user_path_nd() to lookup both parent and target Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 28/39] union-mount: In-kernel file copyup routines Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 29/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware access()/faccessat() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 30/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware link() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 31/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware rename() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 32/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware writable open() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 33/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware chown() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 34/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware truncate() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 35/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware chmod()/fchmodat() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 36/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware lchown() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 37/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware utimensat() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 38/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware setxattr() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 39/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware lsetxattr() Valerie Aurora

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