From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 026F8C004D3 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:03:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D4CF2087D for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:03:03 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b="i5gjVAN8" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 9D4CF2087D Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728748AbeJVTVH (ORCPT ); Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:21:07 -0400 Received: from bedivere.hansenpartnership.com ([66.63.167.143]:51714 "EHLO bedivere.hansenpartnership.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728566AbeJVTVG (ORCPT ); Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:21:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682BD8EE0FC; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 04:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bedivere.hansenpartnership.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bedivere.hansenpartnership.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oa0Bl0AIajDv; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 04:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.22.37.2] (unknown [167.98.65.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ABACF8EE0BA; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 04:02:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1540206176; bh=GjVM4BKZaWGaLzXA3iUB2ADxoUyEfzeutLaE58W6RbE=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=i5gjVAN8p9STjvVa/+2E4HIOOYeVQyrRBrzo+vwaanuIDV+KSN+Lxdl3bg4VSE1BW F+lA4d9gKJLnkfD2QhNUCnBCu3oM1zZktRTtgq9KtGQa4rrUWqDXp/ptRcZzffIdls x3tWPVakrpLr3Qap4nwrbGbamn3JkvyG1ja8DBUM= Message-ID: <1540206166.2815.24.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document From: James Bottomley To: NeilBrown , Greg Kroah-Hartman , linux-kernel , Linus Torvalds Cc: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Mishi Choudhary Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:02:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87y3ar80ac.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> References: <20181020134908.GA32218@kroah.com> <87y3ar80ac.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-TaFZnUKXD7/gTOc36swC" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.26.6 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --=-TaFZnUKXD7/gTOc36swC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2018-10-22 at 08:20 +1100, NeilBrown wrote: > On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: >=20 > > Hi all, > >=20 > > As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the > > kernel tree a few weeks ago. >=20 > I wanted to stay detached from all this, but as remaining (publicly) > silent might be seen (publicly) as acquiescing, I hereby declare > that: > I reject, as illegitimate, this Code and the process by > which it is being "developed". >=20 > It is clear from the surrounding discussions that this is well > outside our core competencies. It will be flawed, it isn't what we > need. >=20 > I call on any other community members who reject this process to say > so, not to remain silent. > #Iobject Well, I've got to say we really know how to screw up the process by ramming this in at the last minute (again): https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?= id=3D8e630c31a3dfc7f4ab1007f95dd507cb2fe1dda5 So yes, I'll certainly object to our inability to follow an open process. > We don't need a "Code of Conduct" nearly as much as we need > "Leadership in conduct". Without the leadership, any code looks like > a joke. I do think we need something in document form, though. Not least because we do have a perception problem which having a document helps allay, mostly for external not internal perceptions. As I've said several times, we have been steadily getting better thanks mostly to internal people helping drive more civilised discussions and being more helpful to new patch submitters. I've also previously pointed out that I really like the debian code of conduct: https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct But now that I'm in Edinburgh, I had a conversation with Jeremy Allison. Apparently the Samba community went through almost exactly the same thing as were going through now: attempt initially to impose the contributor covenant followed by an acrimonious argument (done mostly in private). However, one interesting thing for us might be their final endpoint: https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/How_to_do_Samba:_Nicely Which, like the debian document is a nicely engineered statement of values which is specifically tailored to their community and needs.=20 The interesting thing is that eventually everyone in Samba agreed to this, including the people who initially tried to impose the contributor covenant. James --=-TaFZnUKXD7/gTOc36swC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABMIAB0WIQTnYEDbdso9F2cI+arnQslM7pishQUCW82uVwAKCRDnQslM7pis hdUkAQDR2/xJd4K6zkWwSHOs8PlnbjdF/oGSchnfVkrmoZJRXQD+Jh0Z8zISqLOO NKMV7S3CKJnCTVuxK6LJ6JcD1j20XNM= =vlsK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-TaFZnUKXD7/gTOc36swC--