RE: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

RE: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Torrey Hoffman]

I had exactly this problem with the Maxtor 61 GB drive on my 
Pentium based server.  Theoretically a BIOS upgrade could fix it,
but ASUS quit making BIOS upgrades for my motherboard two years
ago.

I solved the problem by getting a Promise Ultra 100 controller
and putting the drive on that. Works perfectly under Linux 
Mandrake 2.2.17-mdk-21 - it shows up as /dev/hde.  They are
cheap controllers if you don't get the RAID version.

Best wishes.

Torrey Hoffman


> From: Igmar Palsenberg [mailto:maillist@chello.nl]
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:43 PM
> Yeah.. I removed the clipping, and the machine won't boot. It halts after
> PnP init. Any way to use full capacity with the clipping enabled ?
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RE: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Torrey Hoffman wrote:

> I had exactly this problem with the Maxtor 61 GB drive on my 
> Pentium based server.  Theoretically a BIOS upgrade could fix it,
> but ASUS quit making BIOS upgrades for my motherboard two years
> ago.

Ah well, join the club in my case :)

> I solved the problem by getting a Promise Ultra 100 controller
> and putting the drive on that. Works perfectly under Linux 
> Mandrake 2.2.17-mdk-21 - it shows up as /dev/hde.  They are
> cheap controllers if you don't get the RAID version.

Thanx.. Will try that. New machine costs more.
 
> Best wishes.
> 
> Torrey Hoffman


	Regards,

		Igmar

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Tim Wright]

On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 12:25:09AM +0100, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Torrey Hoffman wrote:
> 
> > I had exactly this problem with the Maxtor 61 GB drive on my 
> > Pentium based server.  Theoretically a BIOS upgrade could fix it,
> > but ASUS quit making BIOS upgrades for my motherboard two years
> > ago.
> 
> Ah well, join the club in my case :)
> 

I had a similar situation except I was more interested in the performance
difference. Went from ~4MB/s with the 430HX controller to ~12.5MB/s with
the promise. This on an old Pentium system.

> > I solved the problem by getting a Promise Ultra 100 controller
> > and putting the drive on that. Works perfectly under Linux 
> > Mandrake 2.2.17-mdk-21 - it shows up as /dev/hde.  They are
> > cheap controllers if you don't get the RAID version.
> 
> Thanx.. Will try that. New machine costs more.
>  

Vanilla 2.2 kernels don't have this support (at least not as on 2.2.18).
If you're not running Mandrake, grab Andre Hedrick's excellent ide patch.

One thing you may like to know. If you want the drives attached to the new
controller to be /dev/hda..., then edit lilo.conf and add
	append="pci=reverse"
to your patched kernel entry. Oh, and if you ever need to bootstrap one of
these puppies with a kernel that doesn't have the drivers, you can use
	append="ide0=0xe000,0xd802 ide1=0xd400,0xd002"
to be able to access the drive attached to the Promise controller using the
standard ide driver.

Hope this helps.

Tim

-- 
Tim Wright - timw@splhi.com or timw@aracnet.com or twright@us.ibm.com
IBM Linux Technology Center, Beaverton, Oregon
"Nobody ever said I was charming, they said "Rimmer, you're a git!"" RD VI
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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> I had a similar situation except I was more interested in the performance
> difference. Went from ~4MB/s with the 430HX controller to ~12.5MB/s with
> the promise. This on an old Pentium system.

The network is 10 mbit, so 4 MB/sec is no good in this case.
I've got the thing running, with (ibm)setmax. Don't hang the disk in a
machine that does handle > 32 GB, because it will screw the limit the
setmax just set.

> > > I solved the problem by getting a Promise Ultra 100 controller
> > > and putting the drive on that. Works perfectly under Linux 
> > > Mandrake 2.2.17-mdk-21 - it shows up as /dev/hde.  They are
> > > cheap controllers if you don't get the RAID version.
> > 
> > Thanx.. Will try that. New machine costs more.
> >  
> 
> Vanilla 2.2 kernels don't have this support (at least not as on 2.2.18).
> If you're not running Mandrake, grab Andre Hedrick's excellent ide patch.

Already installed :)

> One thing you may like to know. If you want the drives attached to the new
> controller to be /dev/hda..., then edit lilo.conf and add
> 	append="pci=reverse"
> to your patched kernel entry. Oh, and if you ever need to bootstrap one of
> these puppies with a kernel that doesn't have the drivers, you can use
> 	append="ide0=0xe000,0xd802 ide1=0xd400,0xd002"
> to be able to access the drive attached to the Promise controller using the
> standard ide driver.
> 
> Hope this helps.

Thanx. If I get anymore problems I'll switch to a Promise controller. 2
days to setup a plain Linux box is a bit much.. 

Main problem I've had is that the software clipping bugs, or that my BIOS
in teh newer machine screws things up.

> Tim

	Regards,

		
		Igmar


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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Brad Hartin]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:

> 
> > I had a similar situation except I was more interested in the performance
> > difference. Went from ~4MB/s with the 430HX controller to ~12.5MB/s with
> > the promise. This on an old Pentium system.
> 
> The network is 10 mbit, so 4 MB/sec is no good in this case.
> I've got the thing running, with (ibm)setmax. Don't hang the disk in a
> machine that does handle > 32 GB, because it will screw the limit the
> setmax just set.

If your network is 10 megaBIT, then 4 megaBYTES a second is sufficient to
saturate your network.  10Mbit maxes around 1.1Mbyte half duplex, or so.

Hell, my little server at home has a bunch of old SCSI-2 disks...they do a
whopping 120kbytes a second!

Brad Hartin


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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Andries.Brouwer]

    From: Igmar Palsenberg <maillist@chello.nl>

    > > 2.2.18 sometimes sees 61 GB, sometimes 32 GB.
    > > I don't call that hard to understand.
    > 
    > The same kernel has varying behaviour?
    > Maybe not hard to understand, but rather surprising.
    > You are the first to report nondeterministic behaviour.

    You're not the only one that is suprised :

    1) Put disk in my machine (target machine hangs itself with the disk)
    2) use setmax to set the limit to 32 GB
    3) Put the disk in the target machine
    4) System boots, linux sees 64GB
    5) rebooted system, system hangs due to the soft clippig 'vanished'

    I even had occurences of the kernel setmax message showing up, and after a
    plain reboot it didn't.

    It beats me.. I can't explain, and the machine is rock solid now.

Probably you confused the proper way to use ibmsetmax with
the proper way to use setmax. For setmax, and a Maxtor disk,
you do not use a different machine, put the jumper to clip,
now the boot succeeds, and you let Linux unclip.
Either with a patched kernel that knows about these things
or with a utility run from a boot script.
(It is most convenient to have a partition boundary where
the jumper clips, so that with old kernels and without running
the utility you also have a valid filesystem.)

Andries
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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> Probably you confused the proper way to use ibmsetmax with
> the proper way to use setmax. For setmax, and a Maxtor disk,
> you do not use a different machine, put the jumper to clip,
> now the boot succeeds, and you let Linux unclip.
> Either with a patched kernel that knows about these things
> or with a utility run from a boot script.
> (It is most convenient to have a partition boundary where
> the jumper clips, so that with old kernels and without running
> the utility you also have a valid filesystem.)

I found out yesterday after searching the mailinglist... My bad.
Thanx for the info.

2.2.18 + ide is patched, 2.4.0 isn't. 


	Regards,

		Igmar

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Andries.Brouwer]

> 2.2.18 sometimes sees 61 GB, sometimes 32 GB.
> I don't call that hard to understand.

The same kernel has varying behaviour?
Maybe not hard to understand, but rather surprising.
You are the first to report nondeterministic behaviour.
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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> > 2.2.18 sometimes sees 61 GB, sometimes 32 GB.
> > I don't call that hard to understand.
> 
> The same kernel has varying behaviour?
> Maybe not hard to understand, but rather surprising.
> You are the first to report nondeterministic behaviour.

You're not the only one that is suprised :

1) Put disk in my machine (target machine hangs itself with the disk)
2) use setmax to set the limit to 32 GB
3) Put the disk in the target machine
4) System boots, linux sees 64GB
5) rebooted system, system hangs due to the soft clippig 'vanished'

I even had occurences of the kernel setmax message showing up, and after a
plain reboot it didn't.

It beats me.. I can't explain, and the machine is rock solid now.



	Igmar

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Andries.Brouwer]

> It's not that simple.. The maxtor comes clipped,. but Linux can't kill the
> clip. So it sticks with 32 MB

> ibmsetmax.c does a software clip, but that bugs a bit. Sometimes even
> Linux doesn't see 61 GB, but only 32, sometimes the full capacity.

Please don't talk vague useless garbage.
There is no entity called "Linux". If you mean "the 2.4.0 kernel
boot messages report 61 GB, fdisk 2.9s sees 32 GB, fdisk 2.10r sees 61 GB"
then say so. If you mean something else, say what you mean.
Precisely, with versions and everything.

Since you have a Maxtor, my old setmax should suffice for you, it can kill
the clip, and there is no reason to use ibmsetmax.c, that is a version for
IBM disks. There should not be any need to use other machines.

If something changed for recent Maxtor disks, we would like to know,
but only reliable, detailed reports are of any use.

Andries
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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl wrote:

> > It's not that simple.. The maxtor comes clipped,. but Linux can't kill the
> > clip. So it sticks with 32 MB
> 
> > ibmsetmax.c does a software clip, but that bugs a bit. Sometimes even
> > Linux doesn't see 61 GB, but only 32, sometimes the full capacity.
> 
> Please don't talk vague useless garbage.
> There is no entity called "Linux". If you mean "the 2.4.0 kernel
> boot messages report 61 GB, fdisk 2.9s sees 32 GB, fdisk 2.10r sees 61 GB"
> then say so. If you mean something else, say what you mean.
> Precisely, with versions and everything.

2.2.18 sometimes sees 61 GB, sometimes 32 GB. I don't call that hard to
understand. And I don't use 2.4 on that machine, see previous posting. I
also mentined that I use 2.2.18 with Andre's IDE patches. 

> Since you have a Maxtor, my old setmax should suffice for you, it can kill
> the clip, and there is no reason to use ibmsetmax.c, that is a version for
> IBM disks. There should not be any need to use other machines.
> 
> If something changed for recent Maxtor disks, we would like to know,
> but only reliable, detailed reports are of any use.

It was probably t he BIOS of this newer machine that somehow killed the
software clip. I can't explain otherwise.

The setmax program initially gave errors, so that's why I switched to
ibmsetmax.

If the vague behaviour starts appearing again I'll debug the thing. For
now I blaim the award bios :)
 
> Andries


	Igmar 

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Andries.Brouwer]

> I need to look at fdisk, because it is doing things wrong.

I don't think so, unless you have a really old version.

> Linux sees the correct size, but fdisk still sees 32 GB.
> Probably a recompile / upgrade.

Yes, upgrade in case your version is older than 2.10i.

Andries
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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Andries.Brouwer]

> On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:
>
>> kernel 2.2.18 hates my Maxtor drive :
>> hda: Maxtor 96147H6, 32253MB w/2048kB Cache, CHS=65531/16/63, (U)DMA
>>
>> Actual (correct) parameters : CHS=119112/16/63

No. 2.2.* handles large drives since 2.2.14.
This looks more like you used the jumper to clip the drive to 32GB.
Don't use it and get full capacity.
If your BIOS hangs when it sees such a large drive so that you
cannot avoid using the jumper, use setmax in your boot scripts,
or use a kernel patch that does the same at kernel boot time.

>> Looks like some short int (2 bytes) overflowing. I'll try the ide patches.

The overflow is in certain BIOSes, not in Linux.
(You see in the above: 65531 is not an overflow value.)


Sven Koch replied:

> I had to recompile fdisk as my old suse 6.4 version got the same
> 2byte-wraparound problem.

In the good old days the HDIO_GETGEOM ioctl would give you the disk
geometry. It has a short for cylinders and hence overflows when C
gets above 65535. Since geometry is on its way out - indeed, there has
not been any such thing for many, many years - it would have been
nonsense to introduce new ioctls that report meaningless 32-bit numbers
instead of the present meaningless 16-bit number.
So, instead, the "cylinder" field in the output of this ioctl has been
declared obsolete, and is not used anymore. Programs that want to print
some value, just because they always did and users expect something,
now use BLKGETSIZE to get total size and divide by heads*sectors
to get a cylinder value.
(But again: this cylinder value is not used anywhere, the computed value
is just for the user's eyes.)

Andries
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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> No. 2.2.* handles large drives since 2.2.14.
> This looks more like you used the jumper to clip the drive to 32GB.
> Don't use it and get full capacity.
> If your BIOS hangs when it sees such a large drive so that you
> cannot avoid using the jumper, use setmax in your boot scripts,
> or use a kernel patch that does the same at kernel boot time.
> 
> >> Looks like some short int (2 bytes) overflowing. I'll try the ide patches.
> 
> The overflow is in certain BIOSes, not in Linux.
> (You see in the above: 65531 is not an overflow value.)

The number after clipping was actual - 2^16. Was the reason I was thinking
the kernel was playing games. After applying IDE patches the idesetmax
message showed up :) 

> > I had to recompile fdisk as my old suse 6.4 version got the same
> > 2byte-wraparound problem.
> 
> In the good old days the HDIO_GETGEOM ioctl would give you the disk
> geometry. It has a short for cylinders and hence overflows when C
> gets above 65535. Since geometry is on its way out - indeed, there has
> not been any such thing for many, many years - it would have been
> nonsense to introduce new ioctls that report meaningless 32-bit numbers
> instead of the present meaningless 16-bit number.
> So, instead, the "cylinder" field in the output of this ioctl has been
> declared obsolete, and is not used anymore. Programs that want to print
> some value, just because they always did and users expect something,
> now use BLKGETSIZE to get total size and divide by heads*sectors
> to get a cylinder value.
> (But again: this cylinder value is not used anywhere, the computed value
> is just for the user's eyes.)

all is block adressed indeed.. I need to look at fdisk, because it is
doing things wrong.

The other machine's BIOS can handle 64 GB wihout problems, so I can run
without clipping in that machine.

Linux sees the correct size, but fdisk still sees 32 GB. Probably a
recompile / upgrade.
 
> Andries


	Regards,

		Igmar

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2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

Hi,

kernel 2.2.18 hates my Maxtor drive :

ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
hda: Maxtor 96147H6, 32253MB w/2048kB Cache, CHS=65531/16/63, (U)DMA

Actual (correct) parameters : CHS=119112/16/63

Looks like some short int (2 bytes) overflowing. I'll try the ide patches.



	Regards,

		
		Igmar

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Sven Koch]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:

> kernel 2.2.18 hates my Maxtor drive :
>
> ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
> hda: Maxtor 96147H6, 32253MB w/2048kB Cache, CHS=65531/16/63, (U)DMA
>
> Actual (correct) parameters : CHS=119112/16/63
>
> Looks like some short int (2 bytes) overflowing. I'll try the ide patches.

This type of harddisk works for me with the ide patches. I had to
recompile fdisk as my old suse 6.4 version got the same 2byte-wraparound
problem.

c'ya
sven

-- 

The Internet treats censorship as a routing problem, and routes around it.
(John Gilmore on http://www.cygnus.com/~gnu/)

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Andre Hedrick]

You have a hard destroke clipping on the drive.
Go look at you logs.

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Sven Koch wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:
> 
> > kernel 2.2.18 hates my Maxtor drive :
> >
> > ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
> > hda: Maxtor 96147H6, 32253MB w/2048kB Cache, CHS=65531/16/63, (U)DMA
> >
> > Actual (correct) parameters : CHS=119112/16/63
> >
> > Looks like some short int (2 bytes) overflowing. I'll try the ide patches.
> 
> This type of harddisk works for me with the ide patches. I had to
> recompile fdisk as my old suse 6.4 version got the same 2byte-wraparound
> problem.
> 
> c'ya
> sven
> 
> -- 
> 
> The Internet treats censorship as a routing problem, and routes around it.
> (John Gilmore on http://www.cygnus.com/~gnu/)
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Andre Hedrick
CTO Timpanogas Research Group
EVP Linux Development, TRG
Linux ATA Development

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> You have a hard destroke clipping on the drive.
> Go look at you logs.

Yep, logs indicate that.. 

Sven, how did you kill the clipping ??
Or in generic, how do I kill the clipping ?



	Regards,

		Igmar

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Sven Koch]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:

> > You have a hard destroke clipping on the drive.
> > Go look at you logs.
>
> Yep, logs indicate that..
>
> Sven, how did you kill the clipping ??
> Or in generic, how do I kill the clipping ?

I did'nt know something like that even existed :)

Just plugged the drive into the ide controller (single drive on a
promise ata100 in a dec alpha) and it worked.

But I'm booting from SCSI as the machine does not support IDE-drives in
the "bios".

c'ya
sven

-- 

The Internet treats censorship as a routing problem, and routes around it.
(John Gilmore on http://www.cygnus.com/~gnu/)

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> I did'nt know something like that even existed :)
> 
> Just plugged the drive into the ide controller (single drive on a
> promise ata100 in a dec alpha) and it worked.

Ah.. This is a i386 machine, UDMA33 capable, and the bloody thing won't
boot with the clipping removed, and with clipping I can use only 32 GB :((

> But I'm booting from SCSI as the machine does not support IDE-drives in
> the "bios".

This machine the other way around :)
 

	Regards,

		Igmar

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Matthias Andree]

On Thu, 04 Jan 2001, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:

> Ah.. This is a i386 machine, UDMA33 capable, and the bloody thing won't
> boot with the clipping removed, and with clipping I can use only 32 GB :((

BIOS update or manual configuration in Standard BIOS configuration
required?

-- 
Matthias Andree
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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Matthias Andree]

On Thu, 04 Jan 2001, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:

> Sven, how did you kill the clipping ??
> Or in generic, how do I kill the clipping ?

Go set the jumpers right. (anyhow, IBM drives are delivered unclipped,
not sure why Maxtors seem to be)

-- 
Matthias Andree
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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> > Sven, how did you kill the clipping ??
> > Or in generic, how do I kill the clipping ?
> 
> Go set the jumpers right. (anyhow, IBM drives are delivered unclipped,
> not sure why Maxtors seem to be)

It's not that simple.. The maxtor comes clipped,. but Linux can't kill the
clip. So it sticks with 32 MB

ibmsetmax.c does a software clip, but that bugs a bit. Sometimes even
Linux doesn't see 61 GB, but only 32, sometimes the full capacity.
(i'm talking without the hardware jumper).

the machine I used to set the limit (target machine doesn't but without
the hardware clip), seems to reset the software clip. Probably the BIOS
who does that.

It seems stable now, machine boots OK, and Linux sees 61GB. Let's hope it
will stay that way.


	Regards,

		Igmar



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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

Hi,

Forget the question on killing the drive clipping. I forgot to RTFM :)


	Regards,

		Igmar

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Igmar Palsenberg]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Andre Hedrick wrote:

> 
> You have a hard destroke clipping on the drive.
> Go look at you logs.

Yeah.. I removed the clipping, and the machine won't boot. It halts after
PnP init. Any way to use full capacity with the clipping enabled ?


	Regards,

		Igmar

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Eric Lammerts]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:
> Yeah.. I removed the clipping, and the machine won't boot. It halts after
> PnP init. Any way to use full capacity with the clipping enabled ?

I had the same problem with my 80Gb Maxtor. (Asus P2L97, works with
60Gb but hangs with 80Gb :-/) After clipping the drive with ibmsetmax
(http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0012.1/0249.html)
and removing the jumper, unclipping worked fine (kernel is 2.2.18+ide).

Andre: can you add unclipping support to 2.4 too?

Eric

-- 
Eric Lammerts <eric@lammerts.org>  | "It is a mistake to think you can solve
http://www.lammerts.org            |  any major problems just with potatoes"
                                   |                   - Douglas Adams

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Re: 2.2.18 and Maxtor 96147H6 (61 GB)

[Tommi Virtanen]

On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 12:34:11AM +0200, Eric Lammerts wrote:
> I had the same problem with my 80Gb Maxtor. (Asus P2L97, works with
> 60Gb but hangs with 80Gb :-/) After clipping the drive with ibmsetmax
> (http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0012.1/0249.html)
> and removing the jumper, unclipping worked fine (kernel is 2.2.18+ide).
> 
> Andre: can you add unclipping support to 2.4 too?

	I emailed a patch for 2.4.0-test13-pre5 some time
	ago, has been working fine here ever since.

http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0012.3/0559.html

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