From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:44:11 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:44:01 -0400 Received: from cpe-24-221-152-185.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.152.185]:55564 "EHLO Opus.bloom.county") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:43:54 -0400 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 08:36:02 -0700 From: Tom Rini To: Jes Sorensen Cc: Jakob ?stergaard , "Robert M. Love" , John Cowan , esr@thyrsus.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up Message-ID: <20010521083602.C9965@opus.bloom.county> In-Reply-To: <20010513112543.A16121@thyrsus.com> <20010515173316.A8308@thyrsus.com> <3B054500.2090408@reutershealth.com> <990411054.773.0.camel@phantasy> <20010521043553.C20911@unthought.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.17i In-Reply-To: ; from jes@sunsite.dk on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:58:34AM +0200 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:58:34AM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote: > >>>>> "Jakob" == Jakob ?stergaard writes: > > Jakob> On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 10:10:49PM -0400, Robert M. Love wrote: > >> I think this is a very important point, and one I agree with. I > >> tend to let my distribution handle stuff like python. now, I use > >> RedHat's on-going devel, RawHide. it is not using python2. in > >> fact, since switching to python2 may break old stuff, I don't > >> expect python2 until 8.0. that wont be for 9 months. 90% of > >> RedHat's configuration tools, et al, are written in python1 and > >> they just are not going to change on someone's whim. > > Jakob> 2.6.0 isn't going to happen for at least a year or two. What's > Jakob> the problem ? > > Jakob> Want 2.5.X ? Get the tools too. > > Some people grab the latest devel kernels because thats all that works > on their hardware. And they can grab the latest tools too. Why is this a problem again? python1.5.x is compatiable w/ python2 EXCEPT in the cases where the script uses undocumented things which did work in python1.5.x. But that's not as big of a problem since they can co-exist. Debian already does this (And thus CML2 already deals with python2 being called 'python2') and I wouldn't be supprised if the PowerTools python2 rpm someone pointed out makes them co-exist as well. Which brings up another point, RedHat (7.1?) and Debian/woody both have the option of having python2 around. Anyone know about mandrake? My point is that some dists are already dealing with python2. > Jakob> I'm in no position to push people around, but I think the > Jakob> whining about CML2 tool requirements is completely unjustified. > Jakob> If we required that everything worked with GCC 2.7.2 and nmake, > Jakob> where would we be today ? I'm a lot more worried about CML2 > Jakob> itself than about the tools it requires :) > > gcc-2.7.2 is broken it miscompiles the kernel, Python1 or bash are > not. Well no, but python1 requires another 2k lines of python code or so. Eric, would it be easy/possible to go back to requiring python 1.5.x for CML2, since that is what many dists ship with? > Jakob> Whether CML2 requires python2 or not, the distributions will > Jakob> change. This is not about Eric pushing something down people's > Jakob> throats. Tools evolve, and new revisions introduce > Jakob> incompatibilities, but distributions still follow the > Jakob> evolution. Nobody ships perl4 today either. > > The point is that Eric has been trying to push distributions to ship > P2. Maybe, maybe not. Forgetting about the QA time and whatnot, there's good odds that all of the python scripts RedHat (for example) ships will just work with python2. I know one of the PPC dists didn't ship with python2 (which does have a lot of python bits to it) entirely because they were already in testing when it came out. It's not something the distros can switch to at a whim, but it's also something which shouldn't cause them problems when they do. -- Tom Rini (TR1265) http://gate.crashing.org/~trini/