From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:27:01 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:26:51 -0400 Received: from snark.tuxedo.org ([207.106.50.26]:53000 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:26:33 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:24:58 -0400 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: David Woodhouse Cc: Russell King , CML2 , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: Missing help entries in 2.4.6pre5 Message-ID: <20010622102458.A13435@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , David Woodhouse , Russell King , CML2 , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20010622094934.A13075@thyrsus.com> <20010621160309.A6744@thyrsus.com> <20010621154934.A6582@thyrsus.com> <20010621205537.X18978@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> <20010621160309.A6744@thyrsus.com> <7987.993197604@redhat.com> <20010622094934.A13075@thyrsus.com> <10604.993218210@redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <10604.993218210@redhat.com>; from dwmw2@infradead.org on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 02:56:50PM +0100 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org David Woodhouse : > The irritation only happened because you seem to have ignored the remainder > of my original response and patch - which explained the status of the Ocelot > and XScale options, and which removed the other offending option from > Config.in completely. I'd removed the corresponding code before syncing up > with Linus because it wanted rewriting before it could be submitted, just > forgotten to remove the config option for it. No, I remember that. But if I don't remind lkml periodically that there is work not done on this, I fear it will slide to the bottom of peoples' to-do lists and fall off. That's how we got to the distressing state where about 1/4 of the configuration symbols weren't documented. I solved this problem by (a) working like a dog at writing help entries myself, and (b) using a combination of supplication and irritation on configuration maintainers to get them to hold up their end. This was effective; we've gone from 537 undocumented symbols to 2. In any situation like this, supplication tends to work well initially; you catch the cooperative people who would almost have done what you needed anyway, which is usually 60% or more of them. As you get towards the bottom of the barrel, (subtle) irritation becomes more important. While it isn't *necessarily* the case that the last few holdouts won't move unless you're a persistent pain in the butt about it, that's the smart way to bet. (I've done jobs like this before. Couldn't you tell? :-)) > I'm already rejecting patches which add new config entries but don't add > the corresponding help text. What more do you want? That's very good, and I thank you for that policy. From *you*, I don't want anything else. From the person(s) reponsible for the missing symbols, I want documentation. The problem is that, lacking a detailed database of who is responsible for what, I don't know how to prod each of the people I really want to supplicate/irritate without having you see it also. -- Eric S. Raymond Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon -- so long as there is no answer to it -- gives claws to the weak. -- George Orwell, "You and the Atom Bomb", 1945