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From: Charles Cazabon <linux@discworld.dyndns.org>
To: Linux Kernel List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" <esr@thyrsus.com>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Eli Carter <eli.carter@inet.com>,
	"Michael Lazarou \(ETL\)" <Michael.Lazarou@etl.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Aunt Tillie builds a kernel (was Re: ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:52:08 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020114135208.A4272@twoflower.internal.do> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20020114125228.B14747@thyrsus.com> <E16QBwD-0002So-00@the-village.bc.nu> <20020114132618.G14747@thyrsus.com> <20020114125508.A3358@twoflower.internal.do> <20020114135412.D17522@thyrsus.com>
In-Reply-To: <20020114135412.D17522@thyrsus.com>; from esr@thyrsus.com on Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 01:54:12PM -0500

Eric S. Raymond <esr@thyrsus.com> wrote:
> Charles Cazabon <charlesc@discworld.dyndns.org>:
> > Yes, and yes.  Aunt Tillie is running Linux because someone installed a
> > distribution for her.
> 
> You don't know that.  Maybe she installed it herself.

If she installed Linux herself, today, then she's not Aunt Tillie.  She's "my
Aunt Tillie who's something of a computer hobbyist, and not afraid to install
a Unix-like OS on her PC alongside (or instead of) Windows".  That's a _whole_
different ballgame -- and if she can do that, then she's fully capable of
reading a little bit and answering some yes/no questions to compile a kernel.

> > She is never going to need anything out of her kernel that her
> > vendor-shipped update kernels do not provide.
> 
> *You can't know that.*  

Sure I can -- the same way I know that Ma & Pa Kettle are never going to use
their computer for more than email, web surfing, and playing Solitaire.

> And your belief that you *can* know it is a key part of the elitist
> developer psychology and implicit assumptions that keeps Linux mostly
> inaccessible to the Aunt Tillies of the world.

No, my beliefs are based on twenty years of observing people using computers
and technoogy.  I have yet to see a single person who is simultaneously (i)
technical enough to need something from their kernel that their distribution
vendor doesn't provide, and (ii) not technical enough to be able to compile it
themselves with today's tools.

I think your auto-configurator will be something of a white elephant --
equivalent to a better guide for setting the clock in your VCR.  Those people
who can't figure out how to set their VCR clock from the current instructions
are the same people who don't care whether it flashes "12:00" or not.

Charles
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon                            <linux@discworld.dyndns.org>
GPL'ed software available at:  http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-01-14 19:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-01-14 11:17 ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution Michael Lazarou (ETL)
2002-01-14 16:11 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 16:59   ` Eli Carter
2002-01-14 17:11     ` Wichert Akkerman
2002-01-14 17:52     ` Aunt Tillie builds a kernel (was Re: ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution) Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 18:34       ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 18:26         ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 18:55           ` Charles Cazabon
2002-01-14 13:32             ` Rob Landley
2002-01-14 18:54             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 14:28               ` Rob Landley
2002-01-14 22:34                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 23:02                   ` Bruce Harada
2002-01-14 15:39                     ` Rob Landley
2002-01-15  2:22                       ` Bruce Harada
2002-01-15 13:27                         ` Rob Landley
2002-01-15  0:46                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-01-15 12:29                     ` Andrew Pimlott
2002-01-15 14:28                       ` Bruce Harada
2002-01-15 17:04                       ` Thomas Duffy
2002-01-15 18:19                         ` Marco Colombo
2002-01-15 18:52                           ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-01-15 19:15                             ` Manuel McLure
2002-01-15 19:28                             ` Marco Colombo
2002-01-15 20:13                               ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-01-15 20:30                                 ` Manuel McLure
2002-01-15 20:41                                 ` arjanv
2002-01-15 20:56                                   ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-01-15 21:27                                   ` Marco Colombo
2002-01-15 21:29                                 ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15 19:55                             ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15 20:59                               ` David Woodhouse
2002-01-16 14:53                             ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-16 13:57                         ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-16 10:42                       ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-15 13:53                     ` David Woodhouse
2002-01-14 23:26                   ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15  2:06                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-15 21:08                       ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-15  0:09                   ` Mark Hahn
2002-01-15  9:14                   ` Sean Hunter
2002-01-15 16:36                     ` Rob Landley
2002-01-14 19:29               ` Tom Rini
2002-01-14 19:29               ` Eli Carter
2002-01-14 19:45               ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 19:52               ` Charles Cazabon [this message]
2002-01-15 11:00               ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-14 19:00           ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 18:44             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 19:14               ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 19:34                 ` Tom Rini
2002-01-14 18:59             ` Larry McVoy
2002-01-14 19:02           ` arjan
2002-01-14 19:50             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 13:01               ` gmack
2002-01-14 14:43               ` Rob Landley
2002-01-14 20:26               ` Charles Cazabon
2002-01-14 20:19                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 20:49                   ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 20:55                   ` Brian Gerst
2002-01-14 21:21                   ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15 11:40                 ` David Woodhouse
2002-01-14 20:30               ` Justin Carlson
2002-01-15  1:30                 ` Tom Rini
2002-01-15 22:46                   ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2002-01-15 22:56                     ` Tom Rini
2002-01-16  4:09                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 20:37               ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 20:38                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 22:07                   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-01-14 22:18                     ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 22:36                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-01-14 22:18                   ` Reid Hekman
2002-01-14 23:30                     ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-14 21:05               ` Hugh Dickins
2002-01-14 21:15               ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 22:08                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 23:03                   ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 22:41                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 23:27                       ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15  1:21                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-15 12:31                         ` Marco Colombo
2002-01-15 22:17                 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2002-01-15 23:22                   ` Tom Rini
2002-01-16 10:49                     ` Keith Owens
2002-01-15 11:53               ` T. A.
2002-01-15 13:53               ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-14 19:28           ` Ben Collins
2002-01-14 22:41           ` Tom Gilbert
2002-01-14 18:38       ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 18:53         ` Larry McVoy
2002-01-14 20:50           ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2002-01-15 19:34             ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-15 21:38           ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2002-01-15 23:44             ` Rob Landley
2002-01-16 14:33               ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2002-01-16 13:05                 ` Rob Landley
2002-01-16 15:27             ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-15 10:05       ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-14 18:33   ` ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution Oliver Xymoron
2002-01-14 23:02     ` Tom Gilbert
2002-01-14 18:58   ` Andrew Pimlott
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-01-14 21:08 Aunt Tillie builds a kernel (was Re: ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution) Dave Jones
     [not found] <fa.fslncfv.r6o11i@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.hqe5uev.c60cjs@ifi.uio.no>
2002-01-15 13:00   ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2002-01-15 13:57     ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15 14:02       ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2002-01-16 10:56         ` Horst von Brand

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