public inbox for linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: "Eric S. Raymond" <esr@thyrsus.com>
To: Rob Landley <landley@trommello.org>
Cc: Charles Cazabon <charlesc@discworld.dyndns.org>,
	Linux Kernel List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Eli Carter <eli.carter@inet.com>,
	"Michael Lazarou (ETL)" <Michael.Lazarou@etl.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Aunt Tillie builds a kernel (was Re: ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:34:23 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020114173423.A23081@thyrsus.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20020114125228.B14747@thyrsus.com> <20020114125508.A3358@twoflower.internal.do> <20020114135412.D17522@thyrsus.com> <20020114223042.ENDG28486.femail48.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>
In-Reply-To: <20020114223042.ENDG28486.femail48.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>; from landley@trommello.org on Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 09:28:41AM -0500

Rob Landley <landley@trommello.org>:
> Make autoconfigure expands the pool of people who can build kernels,
> but it's not going to saturate the populace to the point where
> everybody immediately SHOULD.  Not even close.  Over time, the pool
> will grow.  But aiming for Aunt Tillie in the short term is probably
> overreaching.

No, it's not.  Because the second we stop thinking about Aunt Tillie,
we start making excuses for badly-designed interfaces and excessive
complexity.  We tend to fall back into insular, elitist assumptions
that limit both the useability of our software and its potential user
population.  We get lazy and stop checking our assumptions.  When we
do this, Bill Gates laughs at us, and is right to do so.

I've seen it happen in this thread.  Many lkml people clearly have the
attitude that if you aren't willing to sweat the arcana, you
shouldn't be building kernels.  Whst they don't realize is that with
that attitude, we not only lose the Aunt Tillies of the world, we
inflict a lot of unnecessary hassle on *ourselves*, too.  We're
sweating details with think time we could be spending creatively.

Therefore I try to stay focused on Aunt Tillie even though I know
that you are objectively correct and her class of user is likely
not to build kernels regularly for some years yet.
-- 
		<a href="http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>

No matter how one approaches the figures, one is forced to the rather
startling conclusion that the use of firearms in crime was very much
less when there were no controls of any sort and when anyone,
convicted criminal or lunatic, could buy any type of firearm without
restriction.  Half a century of strict controls on pistols has ended,
perversely, with a far greater use of this weapon in crime than ever
before.
        -- Colin Greenwood, in the study "Firearms Control", 1972

  reply	other threads:[~2002-01-14 22:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-01-14 11:17 ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution Michael Lazarou (ETL)
2002-01-14 16:11 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 16:59   ` Eli Carter
2002-01-14 17:11     ` Wichert Akkerman
2002-01-14 17:52     ` Aunt Tillie builds a kernel (was Re: ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution) Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 18:34       ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 18:26         ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 18:55           ` Charles Cazabon
2002-01-14 13:32             ` Rob Landley
2002-01-14 18:54             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 14:28               ` Rob Landley
2002-01-14 22:34                 ` Eric S. Raymond [this message]
2002-01-14 23:02                   ` Bruce Harada
2002-01-14 15:39                     ` Rob Landley
2002-01-15  2:22                       ` Bruce Harada
2002-01-15 13:27                         ` Rob Landley
2002-01-15  0:46                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-01-15 12:29                     ` Andrew Pimlott
2002-01-15 14:28                       ` Bruce Harada
2002-01-15 17:04                       ` Thomas Duffy
2002-01-15 18:19                         ` Marco Colombo
2002-01-15 18:52                           ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-01-15 19:15                             ` Manuel McLure
2002-01-15 19:28                             ` Marco Colombo
2002-01-15 20:13                               ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-01-15 20:30                                 ` Manuel McLure
2002-01-15 20:41                                 ` arjanv
2002-01-15 20:56                                   ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-01-15 21:27                                   ` Marco Colombo
2002-01-15 21:29                                 ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15 19:55                             ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15 20:59                               ` David Woodhouse
2002-01-16 14:53                             ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-16 13:57                         ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-16 10:42                       ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-15 13:53                     ` David Woodhouse
2002-01-14 23:26                   ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15  2:06                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-15 21:08                       ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-15  0:09                   ` Mark Hahn
2002-01-15  9:14                   ` Sean Hunter
2002-01-15 16:36                     ` Rob Landley
2002-01-14 19:29               ` Tom Rini
2002-01-14 19:29               ` Eli Carter
2002-01-14 19:45               ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 19:52               ` Charles Cazabon
2002-01-15 11:00               ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-14 19:00           ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 18:44             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 19:14               ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 19:34                 ` Tom Rini
2002-01-14 18:59             ` Larry McVoy
2002-01-14 19:02           ` arjan
2002-01-14 19:50             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 13:01               ` gmack
2002-01-14 14:43               ` Rob Landley
2002-01-14 20:26               ` Charles Cazabon
2002-01-14 20:19                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 20:49                   ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 20:55                   ` Brian Gerst
2002-01-14 21:21                   ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15 11:40                 ` David Woodhouse
2002-01-14 20:30               ` Justin Carlson
2002-01-15  1:30                 ` Tom Rini
2002-01-15 22:46                   ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2002-01-15 22:56                     ` Tom Rini
2002-01-16  4:09                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 20:37               ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 20:38                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 22:07                   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-01-14 22:18                     ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 22:36                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-01-14 22:18                   ` Reid Hekman
2002-01-14 23:30                     ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-14 21:05               ` Hugh Dickins
2002-01-14 21:15               ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 22:08                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 23:03                   ` Alan Cox
2002-01-14 22:41                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-14 23:27                       ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15  1:21                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-01-15 12:31                         ` Marco Colombo
2002-01-15 22:17                 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2002-01-15 23:22                   ` Tom Rini
2002-01-16 10:49                     ` Keith Owens
2002-01-15 11:53               ` T. A.
2002-01-15 13:53               ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-14 19:28           ` Ben Collins
2002-01-14 22:41           ` Tom Gilbert
2002-01-14 18:38       ` Dave Jones
2002-01-14 18:53         ` Larry McVoy
2002-01-14 20:50           ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2002-01-15 19:34             ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-15 21:38           ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2002-01-15 23:44             ` Rob Landley
2002-01-16 14:33               ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2002-01-16 13:05                 ` Rob Landley
2002-01-16 15:27             ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-15 10:05       ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-14 18:33   ` ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution Oliver Xymoron
2002-01-14 23:02     ` Tom Gilbert
2002-01-14 18:58   ` Andrew Pimlott
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-01-14 21:08 Aunt Tillie builds a kernel (was Re: ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution) Dave Jones
     [not found] <fa.fslncfv.r6o11i@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.hqe5uev.c60cjs@ifi.uio.no>
2002-01-15 13:00   ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2002-01-15 13:57     ` Alan Cox
2002-01-15 14:02       ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2002-01-16 10:56         ` Horst von Brand

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20020114173423.A23081@thyrsus.com \
    --to=esr@thyrsus.com \
    --cc=Michael.Lazarou@etl.ericsson.se \
    --cc=alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk \
    --cc=charlesc@discworld.dyndns.org \
    --cc=eli.carter@inet.com \
    --cc=landley@trommello.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox