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From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
To: Rogier Wolff <R.E.Wolff@BitWizard.nl>
Cc: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Disgusted with kbuild developers
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:07:04 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020218080704.A13009@work.bitmover.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20020215153636.D32005@work.bitmover.com> <200202180941.KAA00769@cave.bitwizard.nl>
In-Reply-To: <200202180941.KAA00769@cave.bitwizard.nl>; from R.E.Wolff@BitWizard.nl on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 10:41:03AM +0100

On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 10:41:03AM +0100, Rogier Wolff wrote:
> Larry McVoy wrote:
> > That's not what I mean.  But it's worthwhile to note that almost all
> > "rewrite from scratch" projects really translate into "I'm unwilling to
> > learn what the last guy did, and I'm smarter, so I'm going to do what
> > I want to do".  And that is not what kernel programmers do.  They would
> > love to be able to do that but it's very rare that doing so makes sense.
> 
> Sometimes the "old" code is set up in such a way that the "right" way
> to do it is not possible. 

_Sometimes_ that is true.  But there is no way you are going to be able to
say that that is the typical case.  History says otherwise.  I'm not saying
that rewrites aren't necessary, I'm saying that many, maybe most, aren't
necessary.

> I've heard that someone is trying to revolutionize "source code
> control systems". He's rewriting almost everything, and not enhancing
> any previous systems. What was his name again?

The fact that BitKeeper will read and write 30 year old SCCS files
seems to have escaped your attention.  Contrast that with the CML
debate and I think it makes my point perfectly.  If Eric's changes
worked the same way, we'd have a system which worked on the old data
and the new.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	 lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitmover.com/lm 

  reply	other threads:[~2002-02-18 16:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 157+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-02-15 16:55 Disgusted with kbuild developers Jeff Garzik
2002-02-15 16:51 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 17:25   ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 19:01     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 17:25   ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-15 17:13     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 17:27   ` Tom Rini
2002-02-15 17:31   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-15 17:25     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 18:24       ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-15 18:55         ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 19:29           ` Arjan van de Ven
2002-02-15 19:14             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 19:58               ` Arjan van de Ven
2002-02-15 19:54                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 20:38                   ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 20:45                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16  8:37                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-15 21:34                     ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 20:59                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 21:47                         ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 21:46                           ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:40                             ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 22:08                               ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:52                                 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16  9:50                                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-02-16  4:57                               ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16  7:41                                 ` Gerd Knorr
2002-02-16 12:36                                 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 14:10                                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:44                             ` Rob Landley
2002-02-19  8:04                             ` Pavel Machek
2002-02-19 21:13                               ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:08                     ` Robert Love
2002-02-15 22:28                       ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 22:11                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 23:07                           ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 15:54                             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:38                               ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 16:22                                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:52                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 17:10                                   ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 16:50                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16  5:05                         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 11:23                           ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-16 14:52                           ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 15:36                             ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 15:52                               ` Possible breakthrough in the CML2 logjam? Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:34                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 16:57                                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 17:29                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 17:32                                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 19:01                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-17  0:57                                         ` Felix von Leitner
2002-02-20  9:07                                           ` 'revolting' overemphasizes personal beliefs && religion bert hubert
2002-02-16 17:37                                     ` Possible breakthrough in the CML2 logjam? Larry McVoy
2002-02-16 17:16                                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 17:48                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 17:50                                         ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-18 10:06                                           ` Rogier Wolff
2002-02-15 20:42                   ` Disgusted with kbuild developers Larry McVoy
2002-02-15 20:39                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 21:15                       ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 20:58                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 21:49                           ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 22:04                             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:41                               ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 23:26                               ` Rob Landley
2002-02-16  6:35                                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 18:20                                   ` Rob Landley
2002-02-16  9:21                                 ` David Woodhouse
2002-02-16 13:57                                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 15:21                                     ` Adam Kropelin
2002-02-16 14:51                                   ` David Woodhouse
2002-02-16 15:56                                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16  5:12                               ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-15 22:09                           ` Richard Gooch
2002-02-15 21:50                             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:27                               ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 22:19                                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16  0:15                                   ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-16 16:00                                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:53                                       ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-17  0:05                                     ` Felix von Leitner
2002-02-15 22:38                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-15 22:22                                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 23:23                                 ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-15 23:29                                   ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 23:37                                     ` David Lang
2002-02-16  2:11                                     ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-15 23:36                                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-15 23:51                                     ` David Lang
2002-02-16  0:49                                       ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16  0:08                                     ` Ben Greear
2002-02-18  9:41                                     ` Rogier Wolff
2002-02-18 16:07                                       ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2002-02-16  9:53                                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-02-16 13:04                                     ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-16 15:53                                       ` Michal Jaegermann
2002-02-17 23:06                                         ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-15 22:41                               ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 23:37                               ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-16  1:14                                 ` William Scott Lockwood III
2002-02-16  1:59                                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-16  2:08                                     ` William Scott Lockwood III
2002-02-17  4:36                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-16  4:17                                     ` John Jasen
2002-02-16  4:20                                       ` William Scott Lockwood III
2002-02-15 22:27                             ` yodaiken
2002-02-15 22:19                           ` Cort Dougan
2002-02-16  8:33                           ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 14:53                             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:55                               ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 22:21                       ` Robert Love
2002-02-15 22:29                         ` That Linux Guy
2002-02-16  5:02                           ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 14:50                             ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 15:33                               ` CML2 feedback (was Re: Disgusted with kbuild developers) Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 16:06                               ` Disgusted with kbuild developers Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-16 16:08                                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:37                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 17:34                                   ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-17  6:46                                     ` Matt D. Robinson
2002-02-16 18:29                                   ` Of Bundling, Dao and Cowardice Alexander Viro
2002-02-16 19:16                                     ` That Linux Guy <thatlinuxguy@hotmail.com>,Re: " Rik van Riel
2002-02-18 17:33                                     ` bill davidsen
2002-02-20 19:53                                     ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-02-16 22:29                                   ` Disgusted with kbuild developers Joel Becker
2002-02-17  0:05                                 ` Rob Landley
2002-02-17  0:26                                   ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-17 23:10                                 ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-16  9:46                           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-02-15 21:24           ` Rob Landley
2002-02-16  9:30           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-02-15 17:02 ` Rik van Riel
2002-02-15 17:35   ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-15 18:00 ` Michael Alan Dorman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-02-15 18:16 Dan Kegel
     [not found] <fa.fs57c8v.pms19j@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.h6krj0v.ggg1hm@ifi.uio.no>
2002-02-16  9:04   ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2002-02-17 17:59 Michael Elizabeth Chastain
2002-02-17 22:07 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-18 21:04 ` Pavel Machek
2002-02-19  2:42 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-19 22:27 ` Felix von Leitner
2002-02-20  1:02   ` Keith Moore
2002-02-18  4:20 Michael Elizabeth Chastain
2002-02-18 15:15 SodaPop
2002-02-19  2:48 ` Daniel Phillips
     [not found] <fa.i4fkbuv.1k1iiqm@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.iuo8icv.19g8gre@ifi.uio.no>
2002-02-19  7:55   ` Giacomo Catenazzi
     [not found] <fa.i8v9q2v.6g8h03@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.hhvfopv.1f70hqv@ifi.uio.no>
2002-02-19  8:04   ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2002-02-19  8:13     ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-19  9:15     ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-19 21:06       ` Bill Davidsen
2002-02-20 11:43     ` Pavel Machek
2002-02-19 10:04 Greg Banks
     [not found] <fa.h0m1njv.tgmh9v@ifi.uio.no>
2002-02-19 11:23 ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2002-02-19 10:51   ` Greg Banks

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