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From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
Cc: Gerrit Huizenga <gh@us.ibm.com>, Lincoln Dale <ltd@cisco.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@zip.com.au>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Martin Dalecki <dalecki@evision-ventures.com>,
	Padraig Brady <padraig@antefacto.com>,
	Anton Altaparmakov <aia21@cantab.net>,
	Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56)
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:19:35 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020511111935.B30126@work.bitmover.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E176LG9-0002cP-00@w-gerrit2> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0205111047280.2355-100000@home.transmeta.com>

On Sat, May 11, 2002 at 11:04:45AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> The thing that has always disturbed me about O_DIRECT is that the whole
> interface is just stupid, and was probably designed by a deranged monkey
> on some serious mind-controlling substances [*].
> 
> I bet you could get _better_ performance more cleanly by splitting up the
> actual IO generation and the "user-space mapping" thing sanely. For
> example, if you want to do an O_DIRECT read into a buffer, there is no
> reason why it shouldn't be done in two phases:

You're only halfway right.  You want to avoid the mmap altogether.  To see
why, postulate that you have infinitely fast I/O devices (I know that's
not true but it's close enough if you get enough DMA channels going at
once, it doesn't take very many to saturate memory).  For any server
application, now all your time is in the mmap().  And there is no need
for it in general, it's just there because the upper layer of the system
is too lame to handle real page frames.

Go read the splice notes, ftp://bitmover.com/pub/splice.ps because those
were written after we had tuned things enough in IRIX that it was the
VM manipulations that became the bottleneck.

Another way to think of it is this: figure out how fast the hardware could
move the data.  Now make it go that fast.  Unless you can hide all the
VM crud somehow, you won't achieve 100% of the hardware's capability.

I know I've done a bad job explaining the splice crud, but there is 
some pretty cool stuff in there, if you really got it, you'd see how
the server stuff, the database stuff, the aio stuff, all I/O of any
kind can be done in terms of the splice:pull() and splice:push()
interfaces and that it is the absolute lowest cost way to have a
generic I/O layer.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	 lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitmover.com/lm 

  reply	other threads:[~2002-05-11 18:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 220+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-05-06  3:53 Linux-2.5.14 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-06  6:30 ` Linux-2.5.14 Daniel Pittman
2002-05-06  6:51   ` Linux-2.5.14 Andrew Morton
2002-05-06 15:13   ` Linux-2.5.14 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07  4:28     ` Linux-2.5.14 Daniel Pittman
2002-05-09  3:53     ` Linux-2.5.14 Daniel Pittman
2002-05-09  4:34       ` Linux-2.5.14 Andrew Morton
2002-05-09  6:02         ` Linux-2.5.14 Daniel Pittman
2002-05-06  6:47 ` Linux-2.5.14 bert hubert
2002-05-06  7:07   ` Linux-2.5.14 Andrew Morton
2002-05-06 14:00     ` Linux-2.5.14 Rik van Riel
2002-05-06  9:09 ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 55 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-06 17:48   ` David Lang
2002-05-06 22:40   ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 10:10     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 11:31       ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 10:31         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 10:34           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 11:48             ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 11:19               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 12:35                 ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 12:36                 ` Andrey Panin
2002-05-07 11:32                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 12:38                 ` Dave Jones
2002-05-07  0:03   ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 10:12     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 11:39       ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 10:40         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 12:42           ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 11:22 ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 14:02   ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-07 13:15     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 14:30       ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-07 15:08       ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 15:36         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 16:20           ` Jan Harkes
2002-05-07 15:26             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 21:36               ` Jan Harkes
2002-05-08  0:25                 ` Guest section DW
2002-05-08  3:03                   ` Jan Harkes
2002-05-08  9:03                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 12:10                     ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 10:51                       ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 16:29           ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-07 16:51             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 18:29               ` Kai Henningsen
2002-05-08  7:48               ` Juan Quintela
2002-05-08 16:54                 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 17:08             ` Alan Cox
2002-05-07 17:00               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 17:19                 ` benh
2002-05-07 17:24                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 17:30                     ` benh
2002-05-10  1:45                       ` Mike Fedyk
2002-05-07 17:43                     ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-07 18:05                       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 18:26                         ` Alan Cox
2002-05-07 18:16                           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 18:40                             ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-07 18:46                               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 23:54                                 ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-08  6:57                                 ` Kai Henningsen
2002-05-08  9:37                                   ` Ian Molton
2002-05-09 13:58                                 ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-08  8:21                               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 17:27                   ` Jauder Ho
2002-05-08  8:13                     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 18:29                   ` Patrick Mochel
2002-05-07 18:02                     ` Greg KH
2002-05-07 18:44                     ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-07 18:44                       ` Patrick Mochel
2002-05-07 19:21                         ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-07 19:58                           ` Patrick Mochel
2002-05-07 18:49                     ` Thunder from the hill
2002-05-07 19:47                       ` Patrick Mochel
2002-05-07 22:03                         ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-08  8:14                           ` Russell King
2002-05-08 16:07                             ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-08 17:07                               ` Russell King
2002-05-08  8:18                     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08  8:07                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08  7:58                 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 12:18                   ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 11:09                     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 12:42                       ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 11:23                         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-09  2:37                         ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-09  3:10                           ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-09 10:05                             ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-09 18:50                               ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-10  0:33                                 ` Andi Kleen
2002-05-10  0:48                                   ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-10  1:06                                     ` Andi Kleen
2002-05-13 17:51                                       ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-14 21:44                                         ` Andi Kleen
2002-05-10  6:50                                 ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56) Lincoln Dale
2002-05-10  7:15                                   ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14IDE 56) Andrew Morton
2002-05-10  7:21                                     ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-10  8:12                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-10 10:14                                     ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-10 12:36                                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-11  3:23                                         ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-13 11:19                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-13 23:58                                             ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-14  0:22                                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-14  2:43                                                 ` O_DIRECT on 2.4.19pre8aa2 md device Lincoln Dale
2002-05-21 15:51                                                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-22  1:18                                                     ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-22  2:51                                                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-06-03  4:53                                                         ` high-end i/o performance of 2.4.19pre8aa2 (was: Re: O_DIRECT on 2.4.19pre8aa2 device) Lincoln Dale
2002-05-12 11:23                                         ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14IDE 56) Lincoln Dale
2002-05-13 11:37                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-10 15:55                                   ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56) Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11  1:01                                     ` Gerrit Huizenga
2002-05-11 18:04                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11 18:19                                         ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2002-05-11 18:35                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11 18:37                                             ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-11 18:56                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11 21:42                                                 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2002-05-11 18:43                                             ` Mr. James W. Laferriere
2002-05-11 23:38                                             ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-12  0:36                                               ` yodaiken
2002-05-12  2:40                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-11 18:26                                         ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 Alan Cox
2002-05-11 18:09                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11 18:45                                         ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56) yodaiken
2002-05-11 19:55                                         ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 Bernd Eckenfels
2002-05-11 14:18                                     ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56) Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk
2002-05-11 14:24                                       ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-11 18:25                                         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2002-05-11 20:17                                           ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-11 22:27                                             ` Gerrit Huizenga
2002-05-11 23:17                                       ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-09  4:16                           ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56 Andre Hedrick
2002-05-09 13:32                             ` Alan Cox
2002-05-09 14:58                           ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 18:21                     ` Erik Andersen
2002-05-08 18:59                       ` Dave Jones
2002-05-08 19:31                       ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 21:16                         ` Erik Andersen
2002-05-08 22:14                           ` Alan Cox
2002-05-09 13:13                   ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-09 19:22                     ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2002-05-10 12:01                   ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-09 13:18                 ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-07 17:10             ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-05-08  7:36             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 17:22               ` Greg KH
2002-05-08 18:46   ` Denis Vlasenko
2002-05-07 11:27 ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 57 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 13:16   ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 12:34     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 13:56       ` Mikael Pettersson
2002-05-07 14:04         ` Dave Jones
2002-05-07 13:57       ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 14:08         ` Dave Jones
2002-05-07 13:11           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 14:29           ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 13:36             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 15:08               ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 16:51             ` Dave Jones
2002-05-08  3:38               ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-08 11:47                 ` Dave Jones
2002-05-07 15:07           ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-07 17:21           ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-11 14:09   ` Aaron Lehmann
2002-05-07 15:03 ` [PATCH] IDE 58 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08  6:42   ` Paul Mackerras
2002-05-08  8:53     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 10:37       ` Bjorn Wesen
2002-05-08 10:16         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 19:06           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-08 19:10             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-08 20:31               ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 19:49                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-08 20:44                   ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 20:04                     ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-09 20:20                       ` Ian Molton
2002-05-08 20:36                     ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-08 20:29                 ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-08 20:06                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-09 12:14                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-09 15:19               ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-05-09 20:20               ` Ian Molton
2002-05-08 11:00         ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-09 19:58 ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 59 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-11  4:16   ` William Lee Irwin III
2002-05-11 16:59 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 60 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-11 18:47   ` Pierre Rousselet
2002-05-11 19:12     ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-11 19:52       ` Pierre Rousselet
2002-05-11 23:48         ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-12 19:19   ` pdc202xx.c fails to compile in 2.5.15 Zlatko Calusic
2002-05-12 19:40     ` Jurriaan on Alpha
2002-05-12 22:00     ` Petr Vandrovec
2002-05-13 12:03       ` Alan Cox
2002-05-13  9:48 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 61 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 12:17 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 62 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 13:48   ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-13 13:02     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 15:38       ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-13 15:45         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 16:54           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-13 16:55             ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-13 16:00               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 18:02             ` benh
2002-05-13 15:50         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 17:52         ` benh
2002-05-13 15:55           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 19:13             ` benh
2002-05-14  8:48               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-17 11:40               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-17  2:27                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-13 15:36   ` Tom Rini
2002-05-14 10:26 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 62a Martin Dalecki
2002-05-14 10:28 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 63 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-15 12:04 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 64 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-15 13:12   ` Russell King
2002-05-15 12:14     ` Martin Dalecki

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