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From: Robert Schwebel <robert@schwebel.de>
To: Andrew Morton <akpm@zip.com.au>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP [Re: [PATCH] loopable tmpfs (2.4.17)]
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 07:45:40 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020526074540.I598@schwebel.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20020524223950.D22643@work.bitmover.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0205250152110.15928-100000@hawkeye.luckynet.adm> <20020525091444.H28795@work.bitmover.com> <3CEFB9C6.FC21D7CB@opersys.com> <20020525092557.K28795@work.bitmover.com> <3CEFBEA3.71611EDB@opersys.com> <20020526004710.A598@schwebel.de> <3CF03526.78F89E24@zip.com.au>

On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 06:06:46PM -0700, Andrew Morton wrote:
> Could you please tell us, just so it is really clear, what these people's
> concerns are? What obstacles they see to using Linux in this industry?

Uncertainty. The situation today is that they are using operating systems
like WindowsCE, VxWorks, QNX or other proprietary operating systems. The
problem is that if you use an operating system for the industry you need to
make sure that you can support your product (=hardware: motion controller
or whatever) for about 10 to 15 years. That's pretty different to the IT
industry! Note also that these applications are very different from IT
applications: they are in most cases not of general use, but only if you
have the special hardware.  

This is the reason why _lots_ of people still use home brown solutions
based on DOS: they have the whole system under their control, nobody can
obsolete them the most significant part of their system. 

Industry people like Linux because it gives them exactly the combination of
freedom (=control over the source) and modern technology they need (note
that ethernet as a fieldbus replacement is a very promising technology). 

On the other hand, Linux still has a rest of the hacker image, at least to
the conservative automation people. When they hear that there is a patent
problem regarding to realtime they often see their central requirement
violated: longterm availability. Even the slightest sign of a potential
problem makes them often say: "Then we better stay with closed sorce,
because that's what we know."  

We don't require much: most of what's _technicall_ necessary is already
there. We just want the same right that every Linux programmer has for it's
software: decide ourself about the license of our self made application. 

Is tat too much? 

Robert
-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------+
 | Dipl.-Ing. Robert Schwebel | http://www.pengutronix.de |
 | Pengutronix - Linux Solutions for Science and Industry |
 |   Braunschweiger Str. 79,  31134 Hildesheim, Germany   |
 |    Phone: +49-5121-28619-0 |  Fax: +49-5121-28619-4    |
 +--------------------------------------------------------+

  reply	other threads:[~2002-05-26  5:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 179+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.21.0204292127480.1709-100000@localhost.localdomain>
     [not found] ` <3CEDF94C.592636A6@kegel.com>
     [not found]   ` <3CEDFCED.D10CD618@zip.com.au>
     [not found]     ` <3CEE806D.D52FBEA5@kegel.com>
2002-05-24 20:26       ` patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP [Re: [PATCH] loopable tmpfs (2.4.17)] Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-24 21:18         ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-24 21:18         ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-24 21:46           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-24 23:05             ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-24 23:22               ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-24 23:53                 ` Alexander Viro
2002-05-25  4:31                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25  4:44                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25  5:20                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25  5:39                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25  6:05                         ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25  7:59                         ` Thunder from the hill
2002-05-25 16:14                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 16:20                             ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 16:25                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 16:41                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 22:47                                   ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-26  1:06                                     ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-26  5:45                                       ` Robert Schwebel [this message]
2002-05-25 17:47                               ` Kurt Wall
2002-05-25 18:13                                 ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 19:21                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-25 18:32                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 18:38                                   ` Mark Mielke
2002-05-25 17:22                           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25 17:49                             ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 20:07                               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-25 20:29                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-26  2:53                                   ` Alan Cox
2002-05-26  2:17                                     ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-25 20:53                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25 21:19                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 17:50                             ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 18:02                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 18:26                                 ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 18:44                                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 19:04                                     ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 19:52                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 20:36                                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 20:51                                         ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 21:05                                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 21:20                                             ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 21:23                                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26  2:46                                                 ` Alan Cox
2002-05-26  3:33                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 21:44                                               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-25 23:16                                             ` Robert Schwebel
     [not found]                                               ` <200205260255.g4Q2tkM62553@saturn.cs.uml.edu>
2002-05-26  5:48                                                 ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-27  5:28                                               ` Calin A. Culianu
2002-05-27 22:12                                                 ` Mark Mielke
2002-05-25 21:14                                         ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-26  2:09                                         ` David Schleef
2002-05-26  3:17                                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26  3:45                                             ` David Schleef
2002-05-26  4:03                                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26 19:40                                                 ` Alan Cox
2002-05-26 19:06                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26 20:17                                                     ` Alexander Viro
2002-05-26 20:33                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26 21:33                                                     ` Alan Cox
2002-05-26 20:44                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26  9:13                                               ` patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP [Re: [PATCH] loopable tmpfs (2.4.17)]y Der Herr Hofrat
2002-05-26 14:13                                                 ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-26 16:31                                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-26  3:58                                             ` patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP [Re: [PATCH] loopable tmpfs (2.4.17)] Alexander Viro
2002-05-26  4:13                                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26  7:30                                                 ` Alexander Viro
2002-05-26 14:42                                                   ` yodaiken
2002-05-26 16:17                                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-26 16:27                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 18:12                               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25 18:22                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 18:33                                   ` Mark Mielke
2002-05-25 18:45                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 23:27                                     ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-25 18:44                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25 19:14                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 19:41                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-25 18:30                                 ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 18:52                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25 21:22                                 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2002-05-25 21:33                                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 21:39                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 21:55                                     ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 22:05                                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 22:13                                         ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 22:17                                         ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 23:10                                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 23:54                                             ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-26  4:05                                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26  6:25                                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25 23:56                                             ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-26  3:40                                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26  8:05                                                 ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-26  8:58                                                   ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-25 22:19                                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2002-05-25 22:34                                         ` Erwin Rol
2002-05-25 23:17                                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25 23:37                                         ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-25 23:46                                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26  0:01                                             ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-26 10:11                                     ` David Woodhouse
2002-05-26 13:04                                       ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-26 13:26                                       ` yodaiken
2002-05-26 14:09                                         ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-26 14:21                                           ` yodaiken
2002-05-26 15:30                                             ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-26 16:55                                               ` yodaiken
2002-05-26 18:00                                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-26 18:29                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-26 21:45                                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-26 21:58                                                       ` Wolfgang Denk
2002-05-26 22:12                                                         ` Erwin Rol
2002-05-26 22:34                                                         ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-26 22:07                                                       ` Mark Mielke
2002-05-26 22:18                                                         ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-26 18:20                                                 ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-26 15:58                                             ` Nicholas Knight
2002-05-27  2:42                                             ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-25 22:58                             ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-26  0:48                               ` Erik Andersen
2002-05-26  5:31                                 ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-26 10:19                                   ` Erik Andersen
2002-05-25  6:08                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-25  4:48                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25  5:00                     ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25  9:02                       ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-25 17:34                       ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-05-24 23:27               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25  3:13                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25  3:25                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25  3:46                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25  4:08                       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25  4:25                         ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-25  4:27                         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25  5:53                           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-25  4:52                         ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-25  9:08                     ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-25 17:27                       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25 20:30                         ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-26  2:51                           ` Alan Cox
2002-05-26  4:11                             ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-26 19:37                               ` Alan Cox
2002-05-26 20:05                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-27 15:27                                 ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-25 22:33                         ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-26  0:07                           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25 20:34                             ` Pierre Cloutier
2002-05-26  0:44                               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-25 21:03                                 ` Pierre Cloutier
2002-05-26  0:39                             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-26  3:12                               ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-05-26  4:20                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-26  4:25                                   ` yodaiken
2002-05-26 13:50                                   ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-05-26  3:28                               ` patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP - Warning actual technical content yodaiken
2002-05-26  3:36                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-26  4:00                                   ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-26  5:38                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2002-05-26  1:21                             ` patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP [Re: [PATCH] loopable tmpfs (2.4.17)] Roman Zippel
2002-05-26  5:44                             ` Daniel Phillips
2002-05-27  4:12                         ` Calin A. Culianu
2002-05-25  9:05                 ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-25  8:59               ` Realtime Linux Situation Robert Schwebel
2002-05-24 21:57           ` patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP [Re: [PATCH] loopable tmpfs (2.4.17)] Andreas Dilger
2002-05-24 22:37             ` Alan Cox
2002-05-24 23:09               ` Andreas Dilger
2002-05-27 17:36               ` Siemens powermanagment patent? [was Re: patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP [Re: [PATCH] loopable tmpfs (2.4.17)]] Pavel Machek
2002-05-27 21:36                 ` Alan Cox
2002-05-24 21:56         ` patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP [Re: [PATCH] loopable tmpfs (2.4.17)] Alexander Viro
2002-05-24 22:46         ` Alan Cox
2002-05-24 22:53           ` Alexander Viro
2002-05-27 21:52 Adam J. Richter
2002-05-27 23:26 ` Alan Cox
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-05-28  6:29 peter
2002-05-28 11:42 ` Alan Cox
2002-05-29 11:25 Robert Kaiser
2002-05-30 22:37 patent on O_ATOMICLOOKUP [Re: [PATCH] loopable tmpfs (2.4.17) ] Ed Vance

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