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From: Oliver Xymoron <oxymoron@waste.org>
To: Andreas Dilger <adilger@clusterfs.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] (0/4) Entropy accounting fixes
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:53:48 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020818055348.GN21643@waste.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20020818052808.GS9642@clusterfs.com>

On Sat, Aug 17, 2002 at 11:28:08PM -0600, Andreas Dilger wrote:
>
> Even so, I would agree with Linus in the thought that being "too
> paranoid" makes it basically useless.  If you have people sniffing
> your network right next to the WAN side of your IPSec firewall with
> GHz network analyzers and crafting packets to corrupt your entropy
> pool, then chances are they could just as easily sniff the LAN side
> of your network and get the unencrypted data directly.  The same
> holds true for keystroke logging (or spy camera) to capture your pass
> phrase instead of trying an incredibly difficult strategy to "influence"
> the generation of this huge key in advance.

Actually, my attack model here assumes a hostile LAN. GHz WAN is
fairly uncommon.

This design comes from an entropy pool I made from scratch for another
system and fixed what I thought the deficits are in the Linux
model. Current Linux a) overestimates entropy b) can't incorporate
untrusted data c) doesn't sample from the network at all.

I think if I'd broken this up this way:

piece 1a: mix in untrusted data without accounting it
piece 1b: start sampling the network as untrusted data
piece 2a: clean up bogosity in entropy accounting
 
..no one would have objected.

> In the end, if you make it so hard to extract your secrets in a stealthy
> manner, they will just start with a few big guys and a rubber hose...

Oddly enough, I came home today from running errands to discover that
someone had tried brute-forcing my front door with a crowbar.

-- 
 "Love the dolphins," she advised him. "Write by W.A.S.T.E.." 

  reply	other threads:[~2002-08-18  5:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-08-18  2:15 [PATCH] (0/4) Entropy accounting fixes Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  2:23 ` [PATCH] (1/4) " Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  2:26   ` [PATCH] (2/4) Update input drivers Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  2:29     ` [PATCH] (3/4) SA_RANDOM user fixup Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  2:32       ` [PATCH] (4/4) entropy batching update Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  2:30 ` [PATCH] (0/4) Entropy accounting fixes Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18  2:59   ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  3:08     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18  3:25       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18  4:42         ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  4:53           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18  5:05             ` Dmitri
2002-08-18  6:18               ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-22  3:33             ` David Wagner
2002-08-18 10:30         ` Alan Cox
2002-08-18 15:08           ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 17:31           ` Jonathan Lundell
2002-08-22  3:27         ` David Wagner
2002-08-18  4:30       ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-21  8:44       ` Rogier Wolff
2002-08-21 12:47         ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  5:28     ` Andreas Dilger
2002-08-18  5:53       ` Oliver Xymoron [this message]
2002-08-22  3:25   ` David Wagner
2002-08-18  3:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18  3:51   ` Robert Love
2002-08-18  4:01     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18  5:38       ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-19  4:21         ` Theodore Ts'o
2002-08-19 10:15           ` Marco Colombo
2002-08-19 10:25             ` Oliver Neukum
2002-08-19 11:03               ` Marco Colombo
2002-08-19 14:22                 ` Oliver Neukum
2002-08-19 15:21                   ` Marco Colombo
2002-08-19 16:29                     ` Oliver Neukum
2002-08-19 12:39           ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  6:31       ` Robert Love
2002-08-18  6:48         ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  4:06     ` dean gaudet
2002-08-18  4:44       ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  7:31       ` Bernd Eckenfels
2002-08-18  9:48         ` Ralf Baechle
2002-08-20 12:51           ` Bernd Eckenfels
2002-08-18 16:58         ` Robert Love
2002-08-18 10:25       ` Alan Cox
2002-08-19 10:47         ` Marco Colombo
2002-08-19 12:29           ` Alan Cox
2002-08-19 12:56             ` Marco Colombo
2002-09-08  3:43             ` D. Hugh Redelmeier
2002-09-08 18:03               ` David Wagner
2002-09-09 16:53                 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-09 16:58                   ` David Wagner
2002-09-09 19:47                     ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-09 23:22                       ` David Wagner
2002-09-16 22:51                       ` dean gaudet
2002-09-17  1:18                         ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-09 18:54                   ` Kent Borg
2002-09-09 19:57                     ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-09 20:11                       ` Kent Borg
2002-08-18  4:57     ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  4:28   ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18  4:51     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18  5:24       ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 16:59         ` Linus Torvalds
2001-11-02 10:34           ` Pavel Machek
2002-08-23 20:16             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18 17:03           ` Robert Love
2002-08-18 17:31           ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 16:54     ` Robert Love
2002-08-18 17:18       ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 17:20         ` Robert Love
2002-08-19  5:43 ` Theodore Ts'o
2001-11-02 10:05   ` Pavel Machek
2002-08-19  6:06   ` *Challenge* Finding a solution (When kernel boots it does not display any system info) louie miranda
2002-08-19  7:30     ` Gilad Ben-Yossef
2002-08-19  7:30     ` Ryan Cumming
2002-08-20  0:55       ` louie miranda
2002-08-19 13:52   ` [PATCH] (0/4) Entropy accounting fixes Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-20  8:59     ` Tommi Kyntola
2002-08-20 13:21       ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-20 16:19         ` Tommi Kyntola
2002-08-20 17:22           ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-08  3:51             ` D. Hugh Redelmeier
2002-09-08  4:31               ` Oliver Xymoron
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-08-18  4:57 David Brownell
2002-08-18  6:02 ` Oliver Xymoron

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