IDE-DVD problems [excuse former idiotic topic]

IDE-DVD problems [excuse former idiotic topic]

[Joseph N. Hall]

Yes, DMA makes the drive completely non functional and eventually
hangs the machine after some amount of attempted use.  This is
regardless of when DMA is enabled, whether via the standard
RedHat "harddiskn" mechanism or manually with hdparm.

  -joseph

On Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:37:57 -0700, Matthew Dharm <mdharm-kernel@one-eyed-alien.net> wrote:
> 
> Have you tried enabling DMA on the drive?
> 
> Matt
> 
> On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:45:00PM -0700, Joseph N. Hall wrote:
> > Dear Kernel Folks,
> >
> > I am trying to determine the cause of the poor performance of a
> > an IDE DVD device on my new machine.  I have an IDE Panasonic DF-210-type
> > DVD-RAM/R/ROM in a new machine with Soyo KT333 motherboard.  It
> > transfers data slowly (below DVD speed), consumes large amounts of
> > system time, and slows down the user interface and even system
> > clock (which can run as slow as 1/4 speed while the drive is
> > going).
> >
> > The interrupt ERR count below seems to be mostly related to use
> > of the DVD drive.
> >
> > Maybe it's something simple.  If not, I'll be glad to do further
> > work to help diagnose the problem.

Re: IDE-DVD problems [excuse former idiotic topic]

[Benjamin LaHaise]

Have you tried commenting out the hdparm commands in the initscripts and 
booted with a kernel that enables DMA (instead of using hdparm -d1)?

		-ben

On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 11:00:00PM -0700, Joseph N. Hall wrote:
> Yes, DMA makes the drive completely non functional and eventually
> hangs the machine after some amount of attempted use.  This is
> regardless of when DMA is enabled, whether via the standard
> RedHat "harddiskn" mechanism or manually with hdparm.
> 
>   -joseph
> 
> On Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:37:57 -0700, Matthew Dharm <mdharm-kernel@one-eyed-alien.net> wrote:
> > 
> > Have you tried enabling DMA on the drive?
> > 
> > Matt
> > 
> > On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:45:00PM -0700, Joseph N. Hall wrote:
> > > Dear Kernel Folks,
> > >
> > > I am trying to determine the cause of the poor performance of a
> > > an IDE DVD device on my new machine.  I have an IDE Panasonic DF-210-type
> > > DVD-RAM/R/ROM in a new machine with Soyo KT333 motherboard.  It
> > > transfers data slowly (below DVD speed), consumes large amounts of
> > > system time, and slows down the user interface and even system
> > > clock (which can run as slow as 1/4 speed while the drive is
> > > going).
> > >
> > > The interrupt ERR count below seems to be mostly related to use
> > > of the DVD drive.
> > >
> > > Maybe it's something simple.  If not, I'll be glad to do further
> > > work to help diagnose the problem.

-- 
"You will be reincarnated as a toad; and you will be much happier."

Re: IDE-DVD problems [excuse former idiotic topic]

[Joseph N. Hall]

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:55:37 -0400, Benjamin LaHaise <bcrl@redhat.com> wrote:
> Have you tried commenting out the hdparm commands in the initscripts and 
> booted with a kernel that enables DMA (instead of using hdparm -d1)?
> 
> 		-ben

I can give that a whirl, but it bothers me the way it currently
"works":

* Performance is terrible
* booting with noapic makes no difference
* Performance seems to indicate some kind of difficulties in
  the kernel, perhaps connected to interrupt handling

I have another RH 7.3 box sitting next to the new one, which has
a Sony DVD-ROM.  I just enabled DMA with hdparm and it works very
well.  That is not what happens on the other (troublesome) machine.

So I am wondering:

* Kernel interrupt handling problem (should there be ERR if
  apic is enabled?  which it is)
* IRQ problem?  I haven't tried changing around IRQs.
* IDE controller problem?  Probably not, because the drive seems
  to work the same on the Highpoint controller.
* Problem with this specific drive?  Perhaps.  I've never used it
  before--the last "combo" drive I used was SCSI.  I bought this
  one because it was the same brand as the SCSI drive I used before,
  and as an IDE device it would be about $500 cheaper (no SCSI
  card needed).  I will check to see if a firmware download is
  available.
* Some other m/b problem?  Perhaps, but I've not tried this drive
  in another box.  I am inclined to try that next.

I am also inclined to try the Sony DVD-ROM in the new box to see
if it exhibits the same behavior.

What is the "combo drive" used by the iMac et al.?

  -joseph

> 
> On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 11:00:00PM -0700, Joseph N. Hall wrote:
> > Yes, DMA makes the drive completely non functional and eventually
> > hangs the machine after some amount of attempted use.  This is
> > regardless of when DMA is enabled, whether via the standard
> > RedHat "harddiskn" mechanism or manually with hdparm.
> > 
> >   -joseph
> > 
> > On Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:37:57 -0700, Matthew Dharm <mdharm-kernel@one-eyed-alien.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Have you tried enabling DMA on the drive?
> > > 
> > > Matt
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:45:00PM -0700, Joseph N. Hall wrote:
> > > > Dear Kernel Folks,
> > > >
> > > > I am trying to determine the cause of the poor performance of a
> > > > an IDE DVD device on my new machine.  I have an IDE Panasonic DF-210-type
> > > > DVD-RAM/R/ROM in a new machine with Soyo KT333 motherboard.  It
> > > > transfers data slowly (below DVD speed), consumes large amounts of
> > > > system time, and slows down the user interface and even system
> > > > clock (which can run as slow as 1/4 speed while the drive is
> > > > going).
> > > >
> > > > The interrupt ERR count below seems to be mostly related to use
> > > > of the DVD drive.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe it's something simple.  If not, I'll be glad to do further
> > > > work to help diagnose the problem.
> 
> -- 
> "You will be reincarnated as a toad; and you will be much happier."
> 

Re: IDE-DVD problems [excuse former idiotic topic]

[Benjamin LaHaise]

On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 08:48:00AM -0700, Joseph N. Hall wrote:
> * Performance is terrible
> * booting with noapic makes no difference
> * Performance seems to indicate some kind of difficulties in
>   the kernel, perhaps connected to interrupt handling

That's what happens when DMA isn't being used: the kernel spends lots of 
time copying data from the drive in the interrupt handler and not allowing 
userspace to execute.

		-ben

Re: IDE-DVD problems [excuse former idiotic topic]

[Joseph N. Hall]

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:49:45 -0400, Benjamin LaHaise <bcrl@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 08:48:00AM -0700, Joseph N. Hall wrote:
> > * Performance is terrible
> > * booting with noapic makes no difference
> > * Performance seems to indicate some kind of difficulties in
> >   the kernel, perhaps connected to interrupt handling
> 
> That's what happens when DMA isn't being used: the kernel spends lots of 
> time copying data from the drive in the interrupt handler and not allowing 
> userspace to execute.

Right, but it will work with or without DMA, for some definition
of "work."  Or it should work, right?

The Sony DVD-ROM performs acceptably w/o DMA (FIC Sabre box w/
1Ghz Pentium, Intel chipset) although it runs faster and smoother
w/ DMA turned on.  Same observation w.r.t CD-ROM.  The LF-D210
(probably it's a D231, they all identify as D210 I think)

Do you know anyone who has gotten this particular drive to work?
Or for that matter if there are any troubles with the KT333
chipset?  I wouldn't be surprised if there are some interrupt
"issues" with KT333 because my plain old IDE performance was
not good under the stock 2.4.18-3 kernel ... it would do some
of the same things (lots of system time, temporary "pauses",
etc.).

I wouldn't mind a m/b change although most of the good
Athlon options are KT333, which probably doesn't
solve anything.  I *was* going to build a dual box with an
S2466 ... maybe I should reconsider doing that.

I am also having problems with the C-Media onboard audio +
ALSA (0.9 rc3) ... it hangs the system (totally) after playing
for a few seconds.  So that is another strike against this
particular h/w configuration.

  -joseph

Re: IDE-DVD problems [excuse former idiotic topic]

[Benjamin LaHaise]

On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 09:11:00AM -0700, Joseph N. Hall wrote:
> Right, but it will work with or without DMA, for some definition
> of "work."  Or it should work, right?

Define "work".  hdparm -d1 doesn't just work, it requires making sure that 
the drive and interface are properly programmed to the correct transfer rates 
first (read as: hdparm -d1 can be Bad).  Using the kernel defaults is much 
better as the probe code will make sure that everything is setup correctly.  
Andre can provide more details and help fix things if it doesn't actually 
work for your drive.

> Do you know anyone who has gotten this particular drive to work?
> Or for that matter if there are any troubles with the KT333
> chipset?  I wouldn't be surprised if there are some interrupt
> "issues" with KT333 because my plain old IDE performance was
> not good under the stock 2.4.18-3 kernel ... it would do some
> of the same things (lots of system time, temporary "pauses",
> etc.).

You might need to upgrade from the -3 kernel (several errata have 
been released) as there were a few known problems with some network 
drivers, as well as NFS and ext3.  Different drives also have varing 
amounts of cache, and it might be this that you're noticing.

> I am also having problems with the C-Media onboard audio +
> ALSA (0.9 rc3) ... it hangs the system (totally) after playing
> for a few seconds.  So that is another strike against this
> particular h/w configuration.

Again, try a newer kernel.  I'm using a C-Media at home and it works 
pretty well for ogg/DVD playback.

		-ben
-- 
"You will be reincarnated as a toad; and you will be much happier."

Re: IDE-DVD problems [excuse former idiotic topic]

[Joseph N. Hall]

I am using 2.4.20-pre5-ac1 and the latest ALSA.

Would it be worthwhile to try a dev kernel?  I really dislike
the ALSA building process.  Is RH7.3 ok with the latest
2.5 kernel?

  -joseph

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 13:44:07 -0400, Benjamin LaHaise <bcrl@redhat.com> wrote:
>> You might need to upgrade from the -3 kernel (several errata have 
> been released) as there were a few known problems with some network 
> drivers, as well as NFS and ext3.  Different drives also have varing 
> amounts of cache, and it might be this that you're noticing.
> 
> > I am also having problems with the C-Media onboard audio +
> > ALSA (0.9 rc3) ... it hangs the system (totally) after playing
> > for a few seconds.  So that is another strike against this
> > particular h/w configuration.
> 
> Again, try a newer kernel.  I'm using a C-Media at home and it works 
> pretty well for ogg/DVD playback.