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From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: New BK License Problem?
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 08:10:39 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20021005081039.Z835@work.bitmover.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3D9EF779.4000906@hotmail.com>; from wa1ter@hotmail.com on Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 07:30:17AM -0700

I can tell that this issue isn't going away quickly so here are some
thoughts.

If the only thing that happens is a pile of complaints about how bad
the license is, the license isn't going to change.

Try and think about this from our point of view.  We provide a complex
yet useful product for free.  While doing so accomplishes our goal of
helping the kernel community, it also puts us at far greater risk that
someone will just reimplement the software.  Creating this software 
was quite difficult and we are not in the business of providing a 
roadmap to our competitors, they get to find their own way.  

If you want to suggest license changes do so showing that you understand
why we did what we did and show how your changes accomplish that in
a better way.  Suggestions like "you guys are idiots, just GPL it and
you can make money from support" just get ignored.  Suggestions which
increase, rather than decrease, our risk also get ignored.

If someone has a magic way of saying "you can use the software if and
only if your use of it does not put BitMover at financial risk" I'd
love to hear it.  So far, however, what I'm hearing is "your license
screws me and I want you to change it".  I hear your complaints, 
but they are just noise because they are one-sided.

There are other ways to work out the problem.  For example, the
openlogging stuff doesn't work for researchers.  We make a standard
practice of providing waivers to institutions or groups who are doing
pure research (not work for hire for BigFatCompany, Inc).  There is no
reason we can't do that for you for the non-compete clause.  We're 
in the process of developing that language for IBM's Linux Technology
Center, we can reuse it for anyone else.

Unless someone can come up with language which protects us, the license
stands as is.  We'll do waivers for kernel developers who happen to 
work at Rational or whatever as needed.  It's no different than dealing
with patents by Red Hat or whoever, if you are concerned about it, you
can ask us to make our intentions clear to you personally in writing.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	 lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitmover.com/lm 

  reply	other threads:[~2002-10-05 15:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 177+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <fa.fl3olav.51slo1@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.chp9htv.i4632g@ifi.uio.no>
2002-10-05 14:30   ` New BK License Problem? walt
2002-10-05 15:10     ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2002-10-05 15:30       ` jbradford
2002-10-05 15:57       ` tom_gall
2002-10-05 23:44         ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06  0:19       ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06  0:30         ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06  0:51           ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06  0:53             ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06  1:00               ` Robert Love
2002-10-06  5:24                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06  7:58                   ` Willy Tarreau
2002-10-05 16:18     ` Hans Reiser
2002-10-05 17:28       ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:12         ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-06 17:43         ` Troy Benjegerdes
2002-10-06 17:58           ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 18:33             ` jbradford
2002-10-06 18:38               ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 21:17                 ` Florian Weimer
2002-10-06 21:26                 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 21:33                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07  5:24                     ` jbradford
2002-10-06 18:56               ` FD Cami
2002-10-06 18:39             ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-06 21:22             ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07  1:29             ` Rob Landley
2002-10-10 21:19             ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-11 13:39               ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07 21:27 Hell.Surfers
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-10-07 17:18 Craig Dickson
2002-10-07 17:19 ` David Lang
2002-10-07 17:43 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 17:10 Craig Dickson
2002-10-07 17:35 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 19:30   ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-10-07 20:37     ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-04 20:55 tom_gall
2002-10-04 21:08 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-04 21:33   ` tom_gall
2002-10-04 21:38     ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-04 22:16       ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2002-10-04 22:36         ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-05  0:04           ` David S. Miller
2002-10-05  0:32             ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05  1:54               ` John Levon
2002-10-05 10:26             ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-05 10:23               ` David S. Miller
2002-10-05  0:50     ` Rob Landley
2002-10-06  2:17       ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-04 23:02   ` David S. Miller
2002-10-04 23:33     ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-04 23:28       ` David S. Miller
     [not found]       ` <20021005003840.GQ710@gallifrey>
     [not found]         ` <20021004174501.Q835@work.bitmover.com>
     [not found]           ` <20021005005344.GR710@gallifrey>
     [not found]             ` <20021004180600.R835@work.bitmover.com>
     [not found]               ` <20021005011706.GU710@gallifrey>
     [not found]                 ` <20021004185325.V835@work.bitmover.com>
2002-10-05 11:54                   ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2002-10-05 17:54   ` Ben Collins
2002-10-05 18:25     ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 18:35       ` Ben Collins
2002-10-05 18:41       ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-10-05 19:06         ` Ben Collins
2002-10-05 19:24           ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-10-05 19:43             ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:51               ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-06  0:42                 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-05 20:21               ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-10-05 23:28                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 23:50                   ` Alan Cox
2002-10-05 23:44                     ` Alexander Viro
2002-10-05 23:53                     ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06  3:40                       ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-06  8:28                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06  8:46                         ` Skip Ford
2002-10-06  9:06                           ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06  9:24                             ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 14:03                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 14:18                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 15:27                             ` Skip Ford
2002-10-08 21:13                               ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-08 22:04                                 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-08 22:15                                   ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-08 22:24                                     ` Dave Jones
2002-10-08 22:20                                       ` David S. Miller
2002-10-08 22:31                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-08 22:26                                       ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-08 22:45                                         ` Dave Jones
2002-10-08 22:06                                 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-08 22:15                                   ` Skip Ford
2002-10-08 22:25                                     ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-08 22:53                                     ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06  0:49                     ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06  4:43                     ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06  5:50                     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-10-06  7:43                       ` Skip Ford
2002-10-06  8:13                         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06  9:21                         ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 16:38                         ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2002-10-06 17:02                           ` Alan Cox
2002-10-06 17:12                             ` Russell King
2002-10-06 21:06                             ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 17:03                           ` Skip Ford
2002-10-06 23:05                             ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07  0:42                               ` Rob Landley
2002-10-06  8:00                     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06 11:04                     ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 10:57                       ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 11:24                         ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 10:59                       ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 12:10                         ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06  4:25                 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06  9:00                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06  3:35               ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-05 19:47             ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-05 19:54               ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:56                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07  2:01                   ` Ben Collins
2002-10-07  2:10                     ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07  2:29                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07  2:38                         ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07  3:07                           ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 22:03                 ` Aaron Lehmann
2002-10-06 22:33                   ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 22:45                     ` Aaron Lehmann
2002-10-06 22:59                       ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 23:15                 ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-07 19:06                   ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-07 20:19                     ` Alan Cox
2002-10-07 20:24                       ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-07 20:37                         ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-07 20:54                           ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-07 21:10                             ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-08  9:11                               ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-10-08  1:05                             ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-06  0:34             ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06  0:45               ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:15         ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:46           ` jbradford
2002-10-06 22:18           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-10-06 23:54             ` Jeff Dike
2002-10-06 22:57               ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 22:57               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-10-06 13:46       ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 13:59         ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 14:56           ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 15:22             ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 15:15               ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 15:39                 ` Alexandre Dulaunoy
2002-10-07  1:21                 ` Rob Landley
2002-10-07  6:29                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07  2:27                     ` Rob Landley
2002-10-07 15:43                   ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-07 16:06                     ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07 16:18                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 16:30               ` Werner Almesberger
2002-10-07  9:37                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2002-10-07 14:50                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 18:45                     ` Abramo Bagnara
2002-10-06 21:31               ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2002-10-06 22:05                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 22:16                   ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 22:19                   ` Robert Love
2002-10-06 22:36                     ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 23:22                 ` Hans Reiser
2002-10-06 13:59         ` Ben Collins
2002-10-06 14:14           ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 14:53         ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 15:37           ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06  0:27     ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06  0:32       ` Ben Collins
2002-10-06  0:53         ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-05 13:10 ` Hans Reiser
2002-10-05 22:53   ` Murray J. Root
2002-10-05 23:21     ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 23:49       ` Murray J. Root
2002-10-06  0:48     ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 19:21       ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-05 13:17 ` Hans Reiser
2002-10-05 13:48   ` FD Cami
2002-10-05 13:41     ` Hans Reiser

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