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From: Mark Mielke <mark@mark.mielke.cc>
To: Helge Hafting <helgehaf@aitel.hist.no>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers?
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:06:17 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030106160617.GA6046@mark.mielke.cc> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3E195E21.CE6A33BD@aitel.hist.no>

On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 11:44:49AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote:
> Mark Mielke wrote:
> > A closed source product with an expensive price tag provides this
> > level of responsibility to customers. (at least in theory)
> Nope.  Did anybody ever sue microsoft because windows crashed and ate
> the disk, destroying valuable data?  Or for loss of productivity during
> downtime?

Then the problem is that companies get away with marketting poor quality
solutions. They wouldn't get away with it if they sold a car, or a baby
high-chair. Why should they get away with it for software?

Software managed by the community cannot have a single point of
responsibility. I'm telling you why companies initially don't like
such products. I'm not claiming whether it is right, or whether it
applies in reality. If you want to convince a company otherwise, you
can't ignore the concern. You need to convince them that their feeling
of security from closed source projects is unfounded. It isn't hand waving,
or general claims like 'when have you ever been able to get MS to pay for
its mistakes?' It is hard numbers. These are not easy to come by.

mark

-- 
mark@mielke.cc/markm@ncf.ca/markm@nortelnetworks.com __________________________
.  .  _  ._  . .   .__    .  . ._. .__ .   . . .__  | Neighbourhood Coder
|\/| |_| |_| |/    |_     |\/|  |  |_  |   |/  |_   | 
|  | | | | \ | \   |__ .  |  | .|. |__ |__ | \ |__  | Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

  One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, one ring to bring them all
                       and in the darkness bind them...

                           http://mark.mielke.cc/


  reply	other threads:[~2003-01-06 15:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 280+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-12-31  3:57 Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Hell.Surfers
2002-12-31  6:55 ` David Schwartz
2002-12-31 10:51 ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:05   ` Xavier Bestel
2002-12-31 12:19     ` John Bradford
2002-12-31 14:22       ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-12-31 14:31         ` John Bradford
2003-01-01 19:28           ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 14:14     ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:41 ` Andre Hedrick
2002-12-31 13:49   ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:26     ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 15:36       ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:44         ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 17:05           ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-01 19:35           ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 15:11   ` Krzysztof Halasa
2002-12-31 22:36   ` David Schwartz
2003-01-01 16:45 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  0:31   ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:08     ` David Lang
2003-01-02  1:29       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:21         ` David Lang
2003-01-02  1:38           ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:37     ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  2:57       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  5:58         ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  6:14           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03  3:32             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03  4:06               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03  5:00                 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03  5:15                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03  8:31                   ` David S. Miller
2003-01-03  5:04                 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03  5:12                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 12:16                     ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 12:51                       ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 13:42                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:46                           ` John Alvord
2003-01-03 14:48                           ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 16:13                             ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03 16:58                               ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 14:04                                 ` Graham Murray
2003-01-05 22:37                                   ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06  1:43                                     ` Ian Molton
2003-01-06  5:26                                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:44                                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-06 16:06                                           ` Mark Mielke [this message]
     [not found]                             ` <3E195A4B.B160B1D2@aitel.hist.no>
2003-01-06 11:23                               ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-07  9:08                                 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-07 15:15                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-08 10:06                                     ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-08 12:28                                       ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:33                                         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 15:46                                           ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:46                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 16:00                                               ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-03 19:33                           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:31                             ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:49                         ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 16:16                         ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 17:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 17:53                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 18:03                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:29                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  1:33                                 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 21:19                             ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:37                               ` Disconnect
2003-01-03 23:44                                 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:52                               ` jw schultz
2003-01-04 15:41                               ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 13:53                             ` Daniel Egger
2003-01-03 16:16                         ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 16:37                           ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 18:38                         ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-03 19:02                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 19:10                           ` Ben Greear
2003-01-03 20:21                           ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-04  1:51                           ` Alan Cox
2003-01-04  1:24                             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-04  5:28                             ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04  8:06                               ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-04  8:21                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03  6:04                 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-03  6:29                   ` Brad Hards
2003-01-03  7:04                     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:31                     ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04  1:34                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 18:16                     ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 15:57                   ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-03 19:44                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 20:39                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:17                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04  6:55                   ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04  9:06                     ` Vincent Bernat
2003-01-04 21:04                     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 18:39                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04 22:06                 ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-04 22:23                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:10                     ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-05  0:00                     ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05  0:26                       ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05  1:48                         ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05 10:14                     ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 20:40                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 21:35                         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:18                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:58                             ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 21:53                         ` Bruce Harada
2003-01-06 21:05                         ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-06 22:06                           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-05 18:34                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 19:28                       ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-05 22:13                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 17:13                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:29                           ` RIZEN
2003-01-07 13:39                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:31                           ` Paulo Andre'
2003-01-06 17:39                           ` Bill Huey
2003-01-07 13:40                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-07 14:17                               ` Bill Huey
2003-01-08  8:00                                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 15:26                                   ` yodaiken
2003-01-09 23:13                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:40                                       ` David D. Hagood
2003-01-10  0:02                                       ` yodaiken
2003-01-11  0:21                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 18:10                                   ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-08  8:00                                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08  9:04                                   ` OT Naming. was: " Nils Petter Vaskinn
2003-01-08 11:23                                     ` Hacksaw
2003-01-08 12:09                                       ` Måns Rullgård
2003-01-09  9:08                                         ` Hacksaw
2003-01-12 11:56                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:27                                       ` OT Naming. was: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closedsource drivers? Michael D. Shannon
2003-01-08 11:53                                   ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Bill Huey
2003-01-09 23:13                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:19                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  0:21                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-10  0:12                                       ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-10 10:51                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-10 15:36                                       ` Linux KERNEL mailinglist! Jan Harkes
2003-01-10 16:10                                       ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Jeff Randall
2003-01-12 11:54                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:58                                           ` Jeff Randall
2003-01-14  5:47                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14  5:47                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 19:37                                               ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 11:23                                                 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-07 15:10                               ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-03  4:38               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 20:31                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:35                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04 23:45                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04 23:58                       ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06  4:55                           ` Philip Wyett
2003-01-03 23:01                   ` Gauntlet Set NOW! Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 23:56                     ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04  7:12                       ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-04  9:14                         ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04  9:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 10:01                             ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 19:31                               ` Matan Ziv-Av
2003-01-04 19:43                                 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-06 10:56                               ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-04 23:44                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  1:22                         ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-05  5:33                           ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-05  5:12                         ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05  5:31                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 10:47                             ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05 15:29                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09  7:28                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09  7:41                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09  7:50                       ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-09  8:08                       ` Andrew Morton
2003-01-09  8:57                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2003-01-09 23:06                         ` Oliver Xymoron
2003-01-03  7:51               ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers? Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:26                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 21:27                     ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-05 21:24                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:08                         ` Eric Ortega
2003-01-05 22:34                         ` Ian Molton
2003-01-05 23:09                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04  0:55                     ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  2:22                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04  3:18                         ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  3:18                           ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-04  6:00                       ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04  7:34                         ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  7:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  8:36                           ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04  8:52                           ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  9:16                             ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 21:47                     ` Roman Zippel
2003-01-05 11:15                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-01-04  1:19                   ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  1:32                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  2:22                       ` venom
2003-01-05  9:38                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-01-05 21:33                     ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:10                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 22:22                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  3:10                   ` David Schwartz
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  0:17                       ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05  4:39                         ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-05  5:35                           ` David Schwartz
2003-01-06 16:24                             ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-06 22:04                               ` David Schwartz
2003-01-07  0:08                                 ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-07 15:53                                 ` Georg Nikodym
2003-01-07 18:05                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-05 21:46                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:06                             ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 21:17                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:44                     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:45                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 23:03                         ` Xavier Bestel
2003-01-05 23:40                         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-03 10:39               ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 11:29                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-03 11:33                   ` ZHAO Wei
2003-01-03 14:52                 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 15:03                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:27                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  6:12       ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-02  6:26         ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  8:51         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-02  1:57     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-02  1:32       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 20:39     ` David Schwartz
     [not found] <fa.led6ibv.hcejr@ifi.uio.no>
2002-12-31 15:03 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-12-31 19:11   ` David Schwartz
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-12-31 17:10 Roberto Peon
2002-12-31 17:43 ` Dan Egli
2002-12-31 17:46   ` Ralf Hildebrandt
2003-01-01  3:13 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-01  3:56 ` A Guy Called Tyketto
2003-01-01  4:48   ` Ed Sweetman
2003-01-01  4:20 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-01  5:13 A Guy Called Tyketto
2003-01-01  7:21 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-01  7:40   ` jw schultz
2003-01-01  7:43 Andre Hedrick
2003-01-01 16:13 ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-01 21:34   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  9:57     ` Jos Hulzink
2003-01-02  5:33 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-03 13:02 ` NEURONET
2003-01-03 15:40   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-02  6:48 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-02  6:56 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-02  7:06   ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-02 17:33     ` Gerhard Mack
2003-01-02  7:15   ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-02 17:43 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-03 16:45 Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 21:52 ` Samuel Flory
2003-01-03 21:55   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 22:55     ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 23:12       ` Samuel Flory
2003-01-03 23:43         ` jdow
2003-01-04  0:15           ` Samuel Flory
2003-01-04  1:30       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  1:15         ` David Lang
2003-01-04  1:34           ` Samuel Flory
2003-01-04  0:53 Billy Rose
2003-01-04  1:27 ` NEURONET
2003-01-04  6:20 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-04  7:11 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-04  7:22 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  8:53 ` Tupshin Harper
2003-01-05  6:14 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-05 12:02 ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-06 18:03 J.S.Souza

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