More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Jeff Garzik]

So I thought I would inject some info into the discussion. :)

Oliver Xymoron (and others?) mentioned that one could do iSCSI in
userspace.  Well, Intel has code at
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/intel-iscsi

Just looking at the todo and glancing at the code shows that it is far
from optimal, but at the same time it is open source and a working
starting point for anyone interested in optimizing it.

	Jeff

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Oliver Xymoron]

On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:36:50PM -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> So I thought I would inject some info into the discussion. :)
> 
> Oliver Xymoron (and others?) mentioned that one could do iSCSI in
> userspace.  Well, Intel has code at
> 	http://sourceforge.net/projects/intel-iscsi

The included userspace server is largely proof-of-concept code and
could do with a fair amount of rounding out. Things this could use to
make it interesting:

 - authentication
 - run-time configuration
 - ability to serve from files and block devices (MD, LVM, crypto-loop)
 - ability to serve from /dev/sgX interfaces with native SCSI (tapes, CDRW..)

Don't know what the state of interop with other initiators is though.

I'll also point out that for many Linux<->Linux purposes, nbd is a workable
substitute. 

-- 
 "Love the dolphins," she advised him. "Write by W.A.S.T.E.." 

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Andre Hedrick]

On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Oliver Xymoron wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:36:50PM -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > So I thought I would inject some info into the discussion. :)
> > 
> > Oliver Xymoron (and others?) mentioned that one could do iSCSI in
> > userspace.  Well, Intel has code at
> > 	http://sourceforge.net/projects/intel-iscsi
> 
> The included userspace server is largely proof-of-concept code and
> could do with a fair amount of rounding out. Things this could use to
> make it interesting:
> 
>  - authentication
>  - run-time configuration
>  - ability to serve from files and block devices (MD, LVM, crypto-loop)
>  - ability to serve from /dev/sgX interfaces with native SCSI (tapes, CDRW..)
> 
> Don't know what the state of interop with other initiators is though.
> 
> I'll also point out that for many Linux<->Linux purposes, nbd is a workable
> substitute. 

You are so correct in the Linux<->Linux model, but remember the other OS
has the dominate market space.  I have proof of interoperability.  Better
yet I have performance proof without the ability to control the benchmark
environment.  IIRC that reference is set at version 6.

The market space has version 7,8,9,11,12,13,16,18,19 working group
varitions.  So please anyone who wants to compete, I welcome the
challenge.  Do not forget the hardware, OS license investments.

Oh and Intel's Pro1000 T Storage Adaptor is a joy to work with, and you
all can try to figure it out on your own.  Oh and be sure the take notice
the list of TOE's that do it sideways.  All OS' mixing between ALL OS' is
the challenge.

Do not forget the other dozen or so RFC docs to support the entire
picture.

Cheers,

Andre Hedrick, CTO & Founder 
iSCSI Software Solutions Provider
http://www.PyXTechnologies.com/

PS Thanks for the Advertising Minute!

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Andre Hedrick]

Oliver et al.

http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/filter_results.asp?strOSs=19%2C24%2C39&strTypes=DRV%2CFRM%2CUTL&ProductID=844&OSFullName=&submit=Go%21
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/proc/T8Clearance.asp?url=/4461/eng/Zama2_1.0.8_Linux_42715.tgz&agr=N

This self extracting file contains the firmware and software for the 
upgrading to 0.8 iSCSI specification.

I own this product, and have to install RH 7.1 w/ 2.4.2 kernels to use and
test with it.

How about equal time for all?

Now to be fair, I am not looking to have Intel take any heat.
I have already gotten abused over my issue, and it roles off.

Regards,

Andre Hedrick, CTO & Founder
iSCSI Software Solutions Provider
http://www.PyXTechnologies.com/

PS Thanks for the Advertising Minute!
PSS You are welcome Intel for the Advertising Minute!

On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Andre Hedrick wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Oliver Xymoron wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:36:50PM -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > > So I thought I would inject some info into the discussion. :)
> > > 
> > > Oliver Xymoron (and others?) mentioned that one could do iSCSI in
> > > userspace.  Well, Intel has code at
> > > 	http://sourceforge.net/projects/intel-iscsi
> > 
> > The included userspace server is largely proof-of-concept code and
> > could do with a fair amount of rounding out. Things this could use to
> > make it interesting:
> > 
> >  - authentication
> >  - run-time configuration
> >  - ability to serve from files and block devices (MD, LVM, crypto-loop)
> >  - ability to serve from /dev/sgX interfaces with native SCSI (tapes, CDRW..)
> > 
> > Don't know what the state of interop with other initiators is though.
> > 
> > I'll also point out that for many Linux<->Linux purposes, nbd is a workable
> > substitute. 
> 
> You are so correct in the Linux<->Linux model, but remember the other OS
> has the dominate market space.  I have proof of interoperability.  Better
> yet I have performance proof without the ability to control the benchmark
> environment.  IIRC that reference is set at version 6.
> 
> The market space has version 7,8,9,11,12,13,16,18,19 working group
> varitions.  So please anyone who wants to compete, I welcome the
> challenge.  Do not forget the hardware, OS license investments.
> 
> Oh and Intel's Pro1000 T Storage Adaptor is a joy to work with, and you
> all can try to figure it out on your own.  Oh and be sure the take notice
> the list of TOE's that do it sideways.  All OS' mixing between ALL OS' is
> the challenge.
> 
> Do not forget the other dozen or so RFC docs to support the entire
> picture.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andre Hedrick, CTO & Founder 
> iSCSI Software Solutions Provider
> http://www.PyXTechnologies.com/
> 
> PS Thanks for the Advertising Minute!

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Oliver Xymoron]

On Sat, Jan 11, 2003 at 12:01:05AM -0800, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> 
> Oliver et al.
> 
> http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/filter_results.asp?strOSs=19%2C24%2C39&strTypes=DRV%2CFRM%2CUTL&ProductID=844&OSFullName=&submit=Go%21
> http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/proc/T8Clearance.asp?url=/4461/eng/Zama2_1.0.8_Linux_42715.tgz&agr=N
> 
> This self extracting file contains the firmware and software for the 
> upgrading to 0.8 iSCSI specification.
> 
> I own this product, and have to install RH 7.1 w/ 2.4.2 kernels to use and
> test with it.

Which means, like every other binary module, it's pretty much
worthless. Though I'm guessing that's not the point you're trying to
make.

(For the record, there's not much value in iSCSI NICs, or TCP offload
in general at the moment, except to avoid potential deadlock issues
with trying to do network buffer allocation down in the block layer)

-- 
 "Love the dolphins," she advised him. "Write by W.A.S.T.E.." 

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Andre Hedrick]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Oliver Xymoron wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 11, 2003 at 12:01:05AM -0800, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> > 
> > Oliver et al.
> > 
> > http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/filter_results.asp?strOSs=19%2C24%2C39&strTypes=DRV%2CFRM%2CUTL&ProductID=844&OSFullName=&submit=Go%21
> > http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/proc/T8Clearance.asp?url=/4461/eng/Zama2_1.0.8_Linux_42715.tgz&agr=N
> > 
> > This self extracting file contains the firmware and software for the 
> > upgrading to 0.8 iSCSI specification.
> > 
> > I own this product, and have to install RH 7.1 w/ 2.4.2 kernels to use and
> > test with it.
> 
> Which means, like every other binary module, it's pretty much
> worthless. Though I'm guessing that's not the point you're trying to
> make.
> 
> (For the record, there's not much value in iSCSI NICs, or TCP offload
> in general at the moment, except to avoid potential deadlock issues
> with trying to do network buffer allocation down in the block layer)

Well if you restrict the transport of the protocol to on Network Fabric,
you have a small point.  However moving off the Network stack to MPI
transports is real power of the protocol.  Classic example is the IBM
iSCSI Shark running Linux, and where are the their drivers?  Recall they
are the "Peace, Love, Linux" company.  However, transports like Myrinet,
SCI, Quads, etc ... are the place to be for local SAN banks.

When NIC's or TOEs support native ipsec, have a CRC32C offload core, and a
few other issues them they will have value.

All the ones I have tested or seen, offload the network stack, do not
support ipsec or handle the CRC32C offload.

Only the MPI fabric cards provide the tools desired.

Cheers,

Andre Hedrick, CTO & Founder 
iSCSI Software Solutions Provider
http://www.PyXTechnologies.com/

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Jeff Garzik]

On Sat, Jan 11, 2003 at 12:01:05AM -0800, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> 
> Oliver et al.
> 
> http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/filter_results.asp?strOSs=19%2C24%2C39&strTypes=DRV%2CFRM%2CUTL&ProductID=844&OSFullName=&submit=Go%21
> http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/proc/T8Clearance.asp?url=/4461/eng/Zama2_1.0.8_Linux_42715.tgz&agr=N
> 
> This self extracting file contains the firmware and software for the 
> upgrading to 0.8 iSCSI specification.

This has software updated to revision 18:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/intel-iscsi

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Oliver Xymoron]

On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 11:10:24PM -0800, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Oliver Xymoron wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:36:50PM -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > > 	http://sourceforge.net/projects/intel-iscsi
[..]
> > Don't know what the state of interop with other initiators is though.
> > 
> > I'll also point out that for many Linux<->Linux purposes, nbd is a workable
> > substitute. 
> 
> You are so correct in the Linux<->Linux model, but remember the other OS
> has the dominate market space. 

Really? Must admit I haven't been paying attention to FreeBSD lately.. ;)

> I have proof of interoperability. Better yet I have performance
> proof without the ability to control the benchmark environment.

I'm sure that's great, but until it's also DFSG compliant, it's
effectively vaporware in my book.

> IIRC that reference is set at version 6.

They're actually up to 18.

-- 
 "Love the dolphins," she advised him. "Write by W.A.S.T.E.." 

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Andre Hedrick]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Oliver Xymoron wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 11:10:24PM -0800, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> > On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Oliver Xymoron wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:36:50PM -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > > > 	http://sourceforge.net/projects/intel-iscsi
> [..]
> > > Don't know what the state of interop with other initiators is though.
> > > 
> > > I'll also point out that for many Linux<->Linux purposes, nbd is a workable
> > > substitute. 
> > 
> > You are so correct in the Linux<->Linux model, but remember the other OS
> > has the dominate market space. 
> 
> Really? Must admit I haven't been paying attention to FreeBSD lately.. ;)

Nah, it is Bill's and Scott's world.

See Enterprise storage is the name of the game.
Ripping the heart out of the Fibre Channel Market is the goal.
The Democratization of Storage is my goal.

Recall the humor of Penguin World Domination ?
Well I am just paving the road for a place to Store it all !

> > I have proof of interoperability. Better yet I have performance
> > proof without the ability to control the benchmark environment.
> 
> I'm sure that's great, but until it's also DFSG compliant, it's
> effectively vaporware in my book.

Oh that is as good as the uptime envy!

Thanks Google for the Cache and easy search!

   Debian Social Contract
... lists) for non-free software packages. The Debian Free Software Guidelines
(DFSG). Free Redistribution. The license of a Debian component ...
Description: License for Debian GNU/Linux.
Category: Computers > Open Source > Licenses
www.debian.org/social_contract.html - 16k - Jan. 9, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

> > IIRC that reference is set at version 6.
> 
> They're actually up to 18.

That is nice to hear.

   This project is Intel Lab's software reference implementation of
   iSCSI. *SEE README FOR COMPATIBLE VERSIONING IN EACH RELEASE*
     * Development Status: 3 - Alpha
     * Intended Audience: Developers
     * License: BSD License
     * Natural Language: English
     * Operating System: Linux
     * Programming Language: C
     * Topic: System

That BSD only nicely keeps it out of Linux!

Regards,

Andre Hedrick, CTO & Founder 
iSCSI Software Solutions Provider
http://www.PyXTechnologies.com/

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Brian Jackson]

Guys, There is another one that is at least decent and up to date, GPL'ed, etc. I'll
be the first to admit it needs some work, but they dok have a target and an
initiator. It's worth a look.

http://www.iol.unh.edu/consortiums/iscsi/

--Brian Jackson

Jeff Garzik (jgarzik@pobox.com) wrote:
>
>On Sat, Jan 11, 2003 at 12:01:05AM -0800, Andre Hedrick wrote:
>>
>> Oliver et al.
>>
>>
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/filter_results.asp?strOSs=19%2C24%2C39&strTypes=DRV%2CFRM%2CUTL&ProductID=844&OSFullName=&submit=Go%21
>>
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/proc/T8Clearance.asp?url=/4461/eng/Zama2_1.0.8_Linux_42715.tgz&agr=N
>>
>> This self extracting file contains the firmware and software for the
>> upgrading to 0.8 iSCSI specification.
>
>This has software updated to revision 18:
>http://sourceforge.net/projects/intel-iscsi
>-
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Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Andre Hedrick]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Brian Jackson wrote:

> Guys, There is another one that is at least decent and up to date, GPL'ed, etc. I'll
> be the first to admit it needs some work, but they dok have a target and an
> initiator. It's worth a look.
> 
> http://www.iol.unh.edu/consortiums/iscsi/
> 
> --Brian Jackson

Do remember you need CHAP and SRP authentications.
Do remember you need full ACL's
Do remember you need all corner cases.
Do remember you need Sync-n-Steering.
Do remember you need to support the entire spec.
Do remember all optionals are manditory.

I forgot the rest of the list, but this plus more are the min.
requirements.

Cheers,


Andre Hedrick, CTO & Founder 
iSCSI Software Solutions Provider
http://www.PyXTechnologies.com/

Re: More on Linux and iSCSI [info, not flame :)]

[Pete Zaitcev]

>[...]
> Oliver Xymoron (and others?) mentioned that one could do iSCSI in
> userspace.  Well, Intel has code at
> 	http://sourceforge.net/projects/intel-iscsi
> 
> Just looking at the todo and glancing at the code shows that it is far
> from optimal, but at the same time it is open source and a working
> starting point for anyone interested in optimizing it.
> 
> 	Jeff

I thought the canonical target was "UNH", and canonical
initiator was Cisco, the issue long settled... Intel is, well...
it's there to keep the leaders honest. Ask MKJ, he
actually tried that thing. He'll tell you what's real.

-- Pete