From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@pobox.com>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 03:38:10 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030222083810.GA4170@gtf.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <19870000.1045895965@[10.10.2.4]>
ia32 big iron. sigh. I think that's so unfortunately in a number
of ways, but the main reason, of course, is that highmem is evil :)
Intel can use PAE to "turn back the clock" on ia32. Although googling
doesn't support this speculation, I am willing to bet Intel will
eventually unveil a new PAE that busts the 64GB barrier -- instead of
trying harder to push consumers to 64-bit processors. Processor speed,
FSB speed, PCI bus bandwidth, all these are issues -- but ones that
pale in comparison to the long term effects of highmem on the market.
Enterprise customers will see this as a signal to continue building
around ia32 for the next few years, thoroughly damaging 64-bit
technology sales and development. I bet even IA64 suffers...
at Intel's own hands. Rumors of a "Pentium64" at Intel are constantly
floating around The Register and various rumor web sites, but Intel
is gonna miss that huge profit opportunity too by trying to hack the
ia32 ISA to scale up to big iron -- where it doesn't belong.
Being cynical, one might guess that Intel will treat IA64 as a loss
leader until the other 64-bit competition dies, keeping ia32 at the
top end of the market via silly PAE/PSE hacks. When the existing
64-bit compettion disappears, five years down the road, compilers
will have matured sufficiently to make using IA64 boxes feasible.
If you really want to scale, just go to 64-bits, darn it. Don't keep
hacking ia32 ISA -- leave it alone, it's fine as it is, and will live
a nice long life as the future's preferred embedded platform.
64-bit. alpha is old tech, and dead. *sniff* sparc64 is mostly
old tech, and mostly dead. IA64 isn't, yet. x86-64 is _nice_ tech,
but who knows if AMD will survive competition with Intel. PPC64 is
the wild card in all this. I hope it succeeds.
Jeff,
feeling like a silly, random rant after a long drive
...and from a technical perspective, highmem grots up the code, too :)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-02-22 8:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 274+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-02-21 23:48 Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call Hanna Linder
2003-02-22 0:16 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 0:25 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 2:24 ` Steven Cole
2003-02-22 0:44 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 2:47 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 4:32 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 5:05 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 6:39 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 8:38 ` Jeff Garzik [this message]
2003-02-22 22:18 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-23 0:50 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 11:22 ` Magnus Danielson
2003-02-23 19:54 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23 1:17 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-23 5:21 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23 8:07 ` David Lang
2003-02-23 8:20 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-23 19:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-23 19:29 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 20:13 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 22:01 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 22:12 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 21:34 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-23 22:40 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 22:48 ` David Lang
2003-02-23 22:54 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 22:56 ` David Lang
2003-02-24 0:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24 2:32 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24 2:54 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24 3:08 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24 21:42 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-24 1:06 ` dean gaudet
2003-02-24 1:56 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24 2:15 ` dean gaudet
2003-02-24 3:11 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 23:06 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 23:59 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24 3:49 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-24 4:07 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24 4:34 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 5:02 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23 20:21 ` Xavier Bestel
2003-02-23 20:50 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 23:57 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-24 1:26 ` Kenneth Johansson
2003-02-24 1:53 ` dean gaudet
2003-02-23 21:35 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-23 21:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24 0:01 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24 0:36 ` yodaiken
2003-02-23 21:15 ` John Bradford
2003-02-23 21:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24 1:25 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-23 21:55 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-23 19:13 ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 23:28 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-26 8:46 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23 20:48 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23 9:37 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 8:38 ` David S. Miller
2003-02-22 8:38 ` David S. Miller
2003-02-22 14:34 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 15:47 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 16:13 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 16:29 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 16:33 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 16:39 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 16:59 ` John Bradford
2003-02-24 18:00 ` Timothy D. Witham
2003-02-22 8:32 ` David S. Miller
2003-02-22 18:20 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-22 20:05 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:35 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-22 21:36 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-22 21:42 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-23 23:23 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24 3:31 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-24 4:02 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 4:15 ` Russell Leighton
2003-02-24 5:11 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 8:07 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-23 0:37 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23 0:42 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23 14:29 ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-23 17:28 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-24 1:42 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-23 3:24 ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-23 16:14 ` object-based rmap and pte-highmem Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 19:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-23 20:16 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 21:37 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-23 22:07 ` pte-highmem vs UKVA (was: object-based rmap and pte-highmem) Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 22:10 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 0:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24 3:07 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 17:17 ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 17:43 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 17:59 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 18:04 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 18:50 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 19:18 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 19:27 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 20:30 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 20:53 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:17 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 21:12 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 22:16 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 22:17 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 22:37 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 21:26 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:18 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-26 5:24 ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-26 5:38 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26 6:01 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-26 6:14 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26 6:32 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26 16:02 ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-27 3:48 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-02-25 20:10 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 20:23 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 20:46 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 20:52 ` Andrea Arcangeli
[not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0302221417120.2686-100000@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca>
[not found] ` <1510000.1045942974@[10.10.2.4]>
2003-02-22 19:56 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 20:24 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:02 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 22:06 ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-22 22:17 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 23:28 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:47 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 0:09 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23 8:01 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-23 8:05 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 18:36 ` Andy Pfiffer
2003-02-22 22:44 ` Ben Greear
2003-02-23 23:29 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-23 23:37 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 4:57 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 6:10 ` Gerhard Mack
2003-02-24 6:52 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 7:46 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24 7:44 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24 7:54 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 8:00 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24 8:40 ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24 8:50 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 16:17 ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 23:13 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 23:27 ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 23:54 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 23:54 ` yodaiken
2003-02-25 2:17 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 2:24 ` yodaiken
2003-02-25 2:35 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 2:43 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 2:32 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 2:40 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 5:24 ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-25 15:30 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 14:59 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 15:44 ` yodaiken
2003-02-26 19:31 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-27 0:56 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-27 20:04 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-25 2:07 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 2:14 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 2:24 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 2:46 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-02-25 14:47 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere
2003-02-25 15:59 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-24 8:56 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24 9:09 ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24 9:24 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24 9:56 ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24 10:11 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24 14:40 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24 21:10 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-24 8:43 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 23:10 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 23:20 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:46 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 2:19 ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-25 3:49 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 5:12 ` Steven Cole
2003-02-25 20:37 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 21:36 ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-25 23:28 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 23:41 ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-26 0:19 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-26 0:35 ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-26 16:31 ` Horst von Brand
2003-02-26 0:47 ` Steven Cole
2003-02-26 16:07 ` Horst von Brand
2003-02-26 19:47 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-26 6:04 ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-02-26 0:44 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 23:58 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-22 23:15 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:23 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-22 23:54 ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-22 23:44 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 4:56 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 5:06 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 6:00 ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-24 6:02 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 15:06 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-24 23:18 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 5:16 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 6:58 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 7:39 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 16:17 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 16:49 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 18:22 ` John W. M. Stevens
2003-02-24 7:51 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 15:47 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 16:00 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 16:23 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-24 16:25 ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 18:20 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-24 16:31 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 23:36 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 0:23 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 2:37 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-02-25 4:42 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 4:54 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 6:00 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 7:00 ` Val Henson
2003-02-24 13:28 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 5:19 ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 5:26 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 21:21 ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 21:14 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:21 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:08 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 22:10 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:37 ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 22:58 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 6:17 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 17:11 ` Cliff White
2003-02-25 17:17 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 17:38 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-25 19:54 ` Dave Jones
2003-02-26 2:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-25 19:48 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:28 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 19:20 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 19:59 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 20:18 ` jlnance
2003-02-25 20:59 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 21:19 ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 21:38 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-24 18:44 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-02-22 23:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-02-23 23:57 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24 6:22 ` Val Henson
2003-02-24 6:41 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:29 ` Jeff Garzik
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-02-24 2:04 linux
2003-02-24 2:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24 3:28 ` David Lang
2003-02-26 5:30 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2003-02-26 5:42 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26 7:22 ` David Lang
2003-02-27 17:50 ` Daniel Egger
2003-02-27 18:25 ` David Lang
2003-02-28 8:58 ` Filip Van Raemdonck
2003-02-28 19:48 ` Arador
2003-03-01 0:51 ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-03-01 1:14 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-03-01 1:27 ` David Lang
2003-03-01 14:15 ` Daniel Egger
2003-02-24 4:42 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 4:58 ` Linus Torvalds
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