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From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
To: "Martin J. Bligh" <mbligh@aracnet.com>
Cc: Mark Hahn <hahn@physics.mcmaster.ca>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:20:29 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030222232029.GB31268@work.bitmover.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1370000.1045955447@[10.10.2.4]>

> We would never try to propose such a change, and never have. 
> Name a scalability change that's hurt the performance of UP by 5%.
> There isn't one.

This is *exactly* the reasoning that every OS marketing weenie has used
for the last 20 years to justify their "feature" of the week.

The road to slow bloated code is paved one cache miss at a time.  You
may quote me on that.  In fact, print it out and put it above your
monitor and look at it every day.  One cache miss at a time.  How much
does one cache miss add to any benchmark?  .001%?  Less.  

But your pet features didn't slow the system down.  Nope, they just made
the cache smaller, which you didn't notice because whatever artificial
benchmark you ran didn't happen to need the whole cache.  

You need to understand that system resources belong to the user.  Not the
kernel.  The goal is to have all of the kernel code running under any 
load be less than 1% of the CPU.  Your 5% number up there would pretty 
much double the amount of time we spend in the kernel for most workloads.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	 lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitmover.com/lm 

  reply	other threads:[~2003-02-22 23:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 289+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0302221417120.2686-100000@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca>
     [not found] ` <1510000.1045942974@[10.10.2.4]>
2003-02-22 19:56   ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 20:24     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:02     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 22:06       ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-22 22:17         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 23:28           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:47             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23  0:09             ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23  8:01               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-23  8:05                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 18:36             ` Andy Pfiffer
2003-02-22 22:44         ` Ben Greear
2003-02-23 23:29           ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-23 23:37             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  4:57               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  6:10                 ` Gerhard Mack
2003-02-24  6:52                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  7:46                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  7:44                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  7:54                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  8:00                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  8:40                       ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24  8:50                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 16:17                           ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 23:13                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 23:27                               ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 23:54                                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 23:54                                   ` yodaiken
2003-02-25  2:17                                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:24                                   ` yodaiken
2003-02-25  2:35                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:43                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:32                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:40                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  5:24                                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-25 15:30                                   ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 14:59                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 15:44                                       ` yodaiken
2003-02-26 19:31                                   ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-27  0:56                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-27 20:04                                       ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-25  2:07                             ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:14                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:24                                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:46                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-02-25 14:47                                     ` Mr. James W. Laferriere
2003-02-25 15:59                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-24  8:56                         ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  9:09                           ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24  9:24                             ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  9:56                               ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24 10:11                                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24 14:40                           ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24 21:10                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-24  8:43                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 23:10         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 23:20           ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2003-02-22 23:46             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  2:19         ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-25  3:49           ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  5:12             ` Steven Cole
2003-02-25 20:37               ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 21:36                 ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-25 23:28                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 23:41                     ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-26  0:19                       ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-26  0:35                         ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-26 16:31                           ` Horst von Brand
2003-02-26  0:47                       ` Steven Cole
2003-02-26 16:07                       ` Horst von Brand
2003-02-26 19:47                         ` Alan Cox
2003-02-26  6:04                     ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-02-26  0:44                 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 23:58                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-22 23:15       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:23         ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-22 23:54           ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-22 23:44         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  4:56           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  5:06             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  6:00               ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-24  6:02                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 15:06               ` Alan Cox
2003-02-24 23:18                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  5:16             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  6:58               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  7:39                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 16:17                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 16:49                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  0:41                       ` Server shipments [was Re: Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call] Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  0:41                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  0:54                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:00                             ` Tupshin Harper
2003-02-25  3:54                               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  3:00                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  3:13                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  4:11                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  4:17                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  4:21                                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  4:37                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 22:02                                     ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-25 23:19                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 23:46                                         ` Gerhard Mack
2003-02-26  4:23                                           ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-26  5:05                                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26  5:27                                             ` Bernd Eckenfels
2003-02-26  9:36                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-26 12:09                                               ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-26 16:42                                                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-02-25 17:37                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25  1:09                           ` David Lang
2003-02-24 18:22                     ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call John W. M. Stevens
2003-02-24  7:51                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 15:47                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 16:00                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 16:23                     ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-24 16:25                       ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 18:20                         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-25  1:51                           ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call - publishing performance data Craig Thomas
2003-02-24 16:31                       ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 23:36                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25  0:23                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:37                         ` Werner Almesberger
2003-02-25  4:42                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25  4:54                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  6:00                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25  7:00                               ` Val Henson
2003-02-24 13:28                 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25  5:19                   ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25  5:26                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 21:21                       ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 21:14                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:21                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:08                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 22:10                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:37                             ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 22:58                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  6:17                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 17:11                       ` Cliff White
2003-02-25 17:17                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 17:38                         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-25 19:54                           ` Dave Jones
2003-02-26  2:04                             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-25 19:48                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:28                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 19:20                     ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 19:59                     ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 20:18                       ` jlnance
2003-02-25 20:59                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 21:19                       ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 21:38                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-24 18:44                 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-02-22 23:57         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-02-23 23:57         ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24  6:22           ` Val Henson
2003-02-24  6:41             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:29     ` Jeff Garzik
2003-02-24  2:04 linux
2003-02-24  2:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  3:28   ` David Lang
2003-02-26  5:30     ` Bernd Eckenfels
2003-02-26  5:42       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26  7:22         ` David Lang
2003-02-27 17:50       ` Daniel Egger
2003-02-27 18:25         ` David Lang
2003-02-28  8:58           ` Filip Van Raemdonck
2003-02-28 19:48           ` Arador
2003-03-01  0:51             ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-03-01  1:14               ` Davide Libenzi
2003-03-01  1:27               ` David Lang
2003-03-01 14:15                 ` Daniel Egger
2003-02-24  4:42   ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  4:58     ` Linus Torvalds
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-02-21 23:48 Hanna Linder
2003-02-22  0:16 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22  0:25   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22  2:24     ` Steven Cole
2003-02-22  0:44   ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22  2:47     ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22  4:32       ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22  5:05         ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22  6:39           ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22  8:38             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-02-22 22:18               ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-23  0:50                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 11:22                   ` Magnus Danielson
2003-02-23 19:54                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23  1:17                 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-23  5:21                   ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23  8:07                     ` David Lang
2003-02-23  8:20                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-23 19:17                         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-23 19:29                           ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 20:13                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 22:01                               ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 22:12                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 21:34                             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-23 22:40                               ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 22:48                                 ` David Lang
2003-02-23 22:54                                   ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 22:56                                     ` David Lang
2003-02-24  0:40                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  2:32                                       ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24  2:54                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  3:08                                           ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24 21:42                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-24  1:06                                     ` dean gaudet
2003-02-24  1:56                                       ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24  2:15                                         ` dean gaudet
2003-02-24  3:11                                           ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 23:06                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 23:59                                   ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24  3:49                                     ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-24  4:07                                       ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24  4:34                                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  5:02                                         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23 20:21                           ` Xavier Bestel
2003-02-23 20:50                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 23:57                               ` Alan Cox
2003-02-24  1:26                                 ` Kenneth Johansson
2003-02-24  1:53                                   ` dean gaudet
2003-02-23 21:35                             ` Alan Cox
2003-02-23 21:41                             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  0:01                             ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24  0:36                             ` yodaiken
2003-02-23 21:15                           ` John Bradford
2003-02-23 21:45                             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  1:25                               ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-23 21:55                           ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-23 19:13                       ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 23:28                         ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-26  8:46                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23 20:48                       ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23  9:37                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22  8:38             ` David S. Miller
2003-02-22  8:38           ` David S. Miller
2003-02-22 14:34             ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 15:47               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 16:13                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 16:29                   ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 16:33                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 16:39                       ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 16:59                         ` John Bradford
2003-02-24 18:00                   ` Timothy D. Witham
2003-02-22  8:32   ` David S. Miller
2003-02-22 18:20   ` Alan Cox
2003-02-22 20:05     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:35       ` Alan Cox
2003-02-22 21:36     ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-22 21:42       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-23 23:23       ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24  3:31         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-24  4:02           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  4:15             ` Russell Leighton
2003-02-24  5:11             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  8:07             ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-23  0:37   ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23  0:42 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23 14:29   ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-23 17:28     ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-24  1:42       ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-23  3:24 ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-25 17:17   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 17:43     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 17:59       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 18:04         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 18:50         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 19:18           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 19:27             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 20:30               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 20:53                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:17                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 21:12                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 22:16                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 22:17                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 22:37                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 21:26                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:18                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-26  5:24                       ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-26  5:38                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26  6:01                           ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-26  6:14                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26  6:32                               ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26 16:02                             ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-27  3:48                               ` Daniel Phillips
2003-02-25 20:10             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 20:23               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 20:46                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 20:52                   ` Andrea Arcangeli

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