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From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
To: William Lee Irwin III <wli@holomorphy.com>,
	"Martin J. Bligh" <mbligh@aracnet.com>,
	Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:23:09 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030225002309.GA12146@work.bitmover.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030224233638.GS10411@holomorphy.com>

> The changes are getting measured. By and large if it's slower on UP
> it's rejected. 

Suppose I have an application which has a working set which just exactly
fits in the I+D caches, including the related OS stuff.

Someone makes some change to the OS and the benchmark for that change is
smaller than the I+D caches but the change increased the I+D cache space
needed. 

The benchmark will not show any slowdown, correct?
My application no longer fits and will suffer, correct?

The point is that if you are putting SMP changes into the system, you
have to be held to a higher standard for measurement given the past
track record of SMP changes increasing code length and cache footprints.
So "measuring" doesn't mean "it's not slower on XYZ microbenchmark".
It means "under the following work loads the cache misses went down or
stayed the same for before and after tests".

And if you said that all changes should be held to this standard, not
just scaling changes, I'd agree with you.  But scaling changes are the
"bad guy" in my mind, they are not to be trusted, so they should be held
to this standard first.  If we can get everyone to step up to this bat,
that's all to the good.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	 lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitmover.com/lm 

  reply	other threads:[~2003-02-25  0:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 289+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0302221417120.2686-100000@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca>
     [not found] ` <1510000.1045942974@[10.10.2.4]>
2003-02-22 19:56   ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 20:24     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:02     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 22:06       ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-22 22:17         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 23:28           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:47             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23  0:09             ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23  8:01               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-23  8:05                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 18:36             ` Andy Pfiffer
2003-02-22 22:44         ` Ben Greear
2003-02-23 23:29           ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-23 23:37             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  4:57               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  6:10                 ` Gerhard Mack
2003-02-24  6:52                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  7:46                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  7:44                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  7:54                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  8:00                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  8:40                       ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24  8:50                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 16:17                           ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 23:13                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 23:27                               ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 23:54                                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 23:54                                   ` yodaiken
2003-02-25  2:17                                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:24                                   ` yodaiken
2003-02-25  2:35                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:43                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:32                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:40                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  5:24                                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-25 15:30                                   ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 14:59                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 15:44                                       ` yodaiken
2003-02-26 19:31                                   ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-27  0:56                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-27 20:04                                       ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-25  2:07                             ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:14                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:24                                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:46                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-02-25 14:47                                     ` Mr. James W. Laferriere
2003-02-25 15:59                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-24  8:56                         ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  9:09                           ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24  9:24                             ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  9:56                               ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24 10:11                                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24 14:40                           ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24 21:10                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-24  8:43                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 23:10         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 23:20           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:46             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  2:19         ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-25  3:49           ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  5:12             ` Steven Cole
2003-02-25 20:37               ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 21:36                 ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-25 23:28                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 23:41                     ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-26  0:19                       ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-26  0:35                         ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-26 16:31                           ` Horst von Brand
2003-02-26  0:47                       ` Steven Cole
2003-02-26 16:07                       ` Horst von Brand
2003-02-26 19:47                         ` Alan Cox
2003-02-26  6:04                     ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-02-26  0:44                 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 23:58                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-22 23:15       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:23         ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-22 23:54           ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-22 23:44         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  4:56           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  5:06             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  6:00               ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-24  6:02                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 15:06               ` Alan Cox
2003-02-24 23:18                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  5:16             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  6:58               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  7:39                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 16:17                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 16:49                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  0:41                       ` Server shipments [was Re: Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call] Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  0:41                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  0:54                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:00                             ` Tupshin Harper
2003-02-25  3:54                               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  3:00                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  3:13                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  4:11                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  4:17                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  4:21                                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  4:37                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 22:02                                     ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-25 23:19                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 23:46                                         ` Gerhard Mack
2003-02-26  4:23                                           ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-26  5:05                                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26  5:27                                             ` Bernd Eckenfels
2003-02-26  9:36                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-26 12:09                                               ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-26 16:42                                                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-02-25 17:37                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25  1:09                           ` David Lang
2003-02-24 18:22                     ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call John W. M. Stevens
2003-02-24  7:51                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 15:47                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 16:00                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 16:23                     ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-24 16:25                       ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 18:20                         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-25  1:51                           ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call - publishing performance data Craig Thomas
2003-02-24 16:31                       ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 23:36                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25  0:23                       ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2003-02-25  2:37                         ` Werner Almesberger
2003-02-25  4:42                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25  4:54                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  6:00                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25  7:00                               ` Val Henson
2003-02-24 13:28                 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25  5:19                   ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25  5:26                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 21:21                       ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 21:14                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:21                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:08                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 22:10                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:37                             ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 22:58                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  6:17                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 17:11                       ` Cliff White
2003-02-25 17:17                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 17:38                         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-25 19:54                           ` Dave Jones
2003-02-26  2:04                             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-25 19:48                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:28                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 19:20                     ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 19:59                     ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 20:18                       ` jlnance
2003-02-25 20:59                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 21:19                       ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 21:38                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-24 18:44                 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-02-22 23:57         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-02-23 23:57         ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24  6:22           ` Val Henson
2003-02-24  6:41             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:29     ` Jeff Garzik
2003-02-24  2:04 linux
2003-02-24  2:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  3:28   ` David Lang
2003-02-26  5:30     ` Bernd Eckenfels
2003-02-26  5:42       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26  7:22         ` David Lang
2003-02-27 17:50       ` Daniel Egger
2003-02-27 18:25         ` David Lang
2003-02-28  8:58           ` Filip Van Raemdonck
2003-02-28 19:48           ` Arador
2003-03-01  0:51             ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-03-01  1:14               ` Davide Libenzi
2003-03-01  1:27               ` David Lang
2003-03-01 14:15                 ` Daniel Egger
2003-02-24  4:42   ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  4:58     ` Linus Torvalds
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-02-21 23:48 Hanna Linder
2003-02-22  0:16 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22  0:25   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22  2:24     ` Steven Cole
2003-02-22  0:44   ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22  2:47     ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22  4:32       ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22  5:05         ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22  6:39           ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22  8:38             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-02-22 22:18               ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-23  0:50                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 11:22                   ` Magnus Danielson
2003-02-23 19:54                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23  1:17                 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-23  5:21                   ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23  8:07                     ` David Lang
2003-02-23  8:20                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-23 19:17                         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-23 19:29                           ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 20:13                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 22:01                               ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 22:12                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 21:34                             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-23 22:40                               ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 22:48                                 ` David Lang
2003-02-23 22:54                                   ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 22:56                                     ` David Lang
2003-02-24  0:40                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  2:32                                       ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24  2:54                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  3:08                                           ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24 21:42                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-24  1:06                                     ` dean gaudet
2003-02-24  1:56                                       ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24  2:15                                         ` dean gaudet
2003-02-24  3:11                                           ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 23:06                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 23:59                                   ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24  3:49                                     ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-24  4:07                                       ` David Mosberger
2003-02-24  4:34                                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  5:02                                         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23 20:21                           ` Xavier Bestel
2003-02-23 20:50                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23 23:57                               ` Alan Cox
2003-02-24  1:26                                 ` Kenneth Johansson
2003-02-24  1:53                                   ` dean gaudet
2003-02-23 21:35                             ` Alan Cox
2003-02-23 21:41                             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  0:01                             ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24  0:36                             ` yodaiken
2003-02-23 21:15                           ` John Bradford
2003-02-23 21:45                             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-24  1:25                               ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-23 21:55                           ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-23 19:13                       ` David Mosberger
2003-02-23 23:28                         ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-26  8:46                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23 20:48                       ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23  9:37                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22  8:38             ` David S. Miller
2003-02-22  8:38           ` David S. Miller
2003-02-22 14:34             ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 15:47               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 16:13                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 16:29                   ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 16:33                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 16:39                       ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 16:59                         ` John Bradford
2003-02-24 18:00                   ` Timothy D. Witham
2003-02-22  8:32   ` David S. Miller
2003-02-22 18:20   ` Alan Cox
2003-02-22 20:05     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:35       ` Alan Cox
2003-02-22 21:36     ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-22 21:42       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-23 23:23       ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24  3:31         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-24  4:02           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  4:15             ` Russell Leighton
2003-02-24  5:11             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  8:07             ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-23  0:37   ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23  0:42 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-23 14:29   ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-23 17:28     ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-24  1:42       ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-23  3:24 ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-25 17:17   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 17:43     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 17:59       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 18:04         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 18:50         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 19:18           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 19:27             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 20:30               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 20:53                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:17                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 21:12                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 22:16                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 22:17                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 22:37                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 21:26                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:18                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-26  5:24                       ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-26  5:38                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26  6:01                           ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-26  6:14                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26  6:32                               ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26 16:02                             ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-27  3:48                               ` Daniel Phillips
2003-02-25 20:10             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 20:23               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25 20:46                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 20:52                   ` Andrea Arcangeli

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