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From: Zack Brown <zbrown@tumblerings.org>
To: "Martin J. Bligh" <mbligh@aracnet.com>
Cc: Roman Zippel <zippel@linux-m68k.org>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>,
	Larry McVoy <lm@work.bitmover.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: BitBucket: GPL-ed KitBeeper clone
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 09:20:45 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030309172045.GP4170@renegade> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8200000.1047228943@[10.10.2.4]>

On Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 08:55:44AM -0800, Martin J. Bligh wrote:
> I think it's possible to get 90% of the functionality that most of us
> (or at least I) want without the distributed stuff. If that's 10% of
> the effort, would be really nice to have the auto-merging type of
> functionality at least.

> If I'm missing something fundamental here, it wouldn't suprise me ;-)

I think the fundamental thing you're missing is that Linus doesn't want it. ;-)

As long as people keep trying to avoid the hard problems that Linus and Larry
keep pointing out, I doubt any effort will get very far. I see a lot of cases
where someone says, "yeah, but we can side-step that problem if we do x,
y, or z." That doesn't help. The question is, what are the actual features
required for a version control system that could win support among the top
kernel developers?

People in the know hint at these features ("naming is really important"),
but the details are apparently complicated enough that no one wants to sit
down and actually describe them. They just hint at the *sort* of problems
they are, and then someone says, "but that's not really a problem because
of x, y, or z that can be done instead."

Then people get sidetracked on the features they personally would settle for,
and the real point gets lost in the fog. Or else they start dreaming
about what the perfect system would be like, describing features that
would not actually be required for a kernel-ready version control
system.

Unless the people in the know actually speak up, the rest of us just won't
be able to figure out what they need. A lot of projects are chasing their
tails right now, trying to do something, but lacking the direction they need
in order to do it.

Be well,
Zack

> 
> M.

-- 
Zack Brown

  reply	other threads:[~2003-03-09 17:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 199+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-03-02  0:11 BitBucket: GPL-ed KitBeeper clone Adam J. Richter
2003-03-02  0:20 ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-02  0:20 ` David Lang
2003-03-02  0:49 ` Arador
2003-03-02  1:03   ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-02  2:15   ` Alan Cox
2003-03-02  1:19     ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-02  1:40       ` BitBucket: GPL-ed *notrademarkhere* clone Andrea Arcangeli
2003-03-02  1:45         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-02  2:09           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-03-02 17:28             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-02 18:16               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-03-02 20:12                 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-02 21:49                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-03-03 18:37                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-03 18:46                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-03 22:57                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-03-03 23:14                     ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-03 23:56                     ` David Lang
2003-03-04  0:02                       ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-04  0:05                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-04  0:15                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-03-04  0:30                           ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-04  2:20                       ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-03-04  5:29                         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-03-04  5:56                           ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-03-04 14:51                             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-02  3:29           ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-03-02 17:12             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-02 18:39               ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-03-02 20:01                 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-03  0:47               ` nickn
2003-03-03  0:55                 ` David Lang
2003-03-03  2:31                   ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-03  2:32                 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-03-04  1:07                   ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-04  1:10                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-03-03 21:53               ` Joel Becker
2003-03-04 23:37                 ` Olaf Hering
2003-03-06 16:47                 ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-06 16:41               ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-07 11:24                 ` Tupshin Harper
2003-03-07 11:28                   ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-07 21:53                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-03-08 23:18                   ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-03  0:13           ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-03  0:10       ` BitBucket: GPL-ed KitBeeper clone Pavel Machek
2003-03-04 16:16         ` David Woodhouse
2003-03-04 16:27           ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-02  1:26 ` Olivier Galibert
2003-03-06 16:18   ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-07 12:12     ` Olivier Galibert
2003-03-07 12:32       ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-07 16:54         ` Olivier Galibert
2003-03-07 17:14           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-03-07 19:08           ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-07 19:25             ` Eli Carter
2003-03-07 20:29               ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-07 23:16             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-03-08 22:52               ` Zack Brown
2003-03-09  0:05                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-09  1:21                   ` Davide Libenzi
2003-03-09  2:45                   ` Zack Brown
2003-03-09  3:19                     ` Roman Zippel
2003-03-09  3:42                       ` Linus Torvalds
2003-03-09  4:32                         ` Roman Zippel
2003-03-09 13:34                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-03-09 15:35                             ` Roman Zippel
2003-03-09 16:55                               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-03-09 17:20                                 ` Zack Brown [this message]
2003-03-09 17:48                                   ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-03-09 19:58                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-09 21:32                                     ` Zack Brown
2003-03-09 21:54                                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-03-09 23:28                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-13 20:00                                     ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-09 17:39                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-03-09 17:58                                   ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-03-09 18:20                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-09 23:19                                     ` fs
2003-03-13  0:41                                     ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-13 21:21                                       ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-09 20:01                                   ` Roman Zippel
2003-03-13  0:13                             ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-09 14:49                         ` Olivier Galibert
2003-03-13  0:05                         ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-10  0:02                     ` Thoughts about ideal kernel SCM Petr Baudis
2003-03-10  0:32                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-12 19:29                         ` Petr Baudis
2003-03-13 10:36                       ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-14 22:56                         ` Petr Baudis
2003-03-17 20:59                       ` Petr Baudis
2003-03-10  3:41                     ` BitBucket: GPL-ed KitBeeper clone Horst von Brand
2003-03-10 13:52                       ` Jamie Lokier
2003-03-10 23:03                     ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-11 18:40                       ` Zack Brown
2003-03-11 18:46                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-03-11 19:30                           ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-11 19:33                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-03-11 20:08                               ` Andrew Morton
2003-03-11 20:29                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-03-12  6:14                             ` Werner Almesberger
2003-03-13  2:48                               ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-13  3:11                                 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-03-14 12:29                             ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-15 20:53                               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-03-15 21:26                               ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-15 21:32                               ` Petr Baudis
2003-03-15 23:39                                 ` Petr Baudis
2003-03-16  0:39                               ` Horst von Brand
2003-04-07 21:22                               ` Petr Baudis
2003-03-12  3:47                         ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-12  4:03                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-12  4:49                             ` [PATCH] ~/kernel/sys.c (2.5.64) (trivial) Jay Patrick Howard
2003-03-12  5:22                           ` BitBucket: GPL-ed KitBeeper clone Zack Brown
2003-03-12  5:44                             ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-12 13:48                               ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-13  1:03                                 ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-13 16:53                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-15 15:02                                     ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-15 21:25                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-12  6:19                             ` Werner Almesberger
2003-03-13  1:31                               ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-12 15:32                             ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-12 16:13                               ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-12 20:37                                 ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-12 20:54                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-03-13  2:00                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-15  1:03                                     ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-12 13:22                           ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-13  0:52                             ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-13 17:00                               ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-13 21:48                                 ` Zack Brown
2003-03-13 22:04                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-15 16:21                                 ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-15 21:25                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2003-03-15 21:53                                     ` Robert Anderson
2003-03-15 21:50                                       ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-03-15 22:16                                         ` Robert Anderson
2003-03-15 22:18                                         ` Robert Anderson
2003-03-16  0:18                                       ` Petr Baudis
2003-03-16  0:53                                         ` Davide Libenzi
2003-03-16  0:55                                         ` [arch-users] " Stig Brautaset
2003-03-16  1:44                                         ` Tom Lord
2003-03-16  2:06                                           ` Adam Spiers
2003-03-16  3:28                                             ` David Lang
2003-03-16  5:43                                         ` Robert Anderson
2003-03-16 11:57                                         ` (Re: BitBucket: GPL-ed KitBeeper clone) Moving to arch-users Petr Baudis
2003-03-14 11:34                         ` BitBucket: GPL-ed KitBeeper clone Pavel Machek
2003-03-12 23:38                     ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-09  2:06             ` Horst von Brand
     [not found]             ` <b4b98v_14m_1@penguin.transmeta.com>
2003-03-12 23:23               ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-13 21:15                 ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-08  0:18       ` Olaf Dietsche
2003-03-02  1:37 ` Filip Van Raemdonck
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-04-08 17:52 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-08 18:02 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-08 23:19   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-09  0:47     ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-09  1:34       ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-09  1:43       ` Robert White
2003-04-09  2:09     ` Mark Mielke
2003-04-09 13:14       ` Mr. James W. Laferriere
2003-04-09 13:35         ` Matti Aarnio
2003-04-08 13:06 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-07 23:57 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-08  0:30 ` Larry McVoy
     [not found] <1047571030.5373.161.camel@passion.cambridge.redhat.com>
2003-03-15 14:17 ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-15 18:48   ` Larry McVoy
2003-03-15 18:51   ` David Woodhouse
     [not found] <20030309001008$2ed5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <20030309001008$4e61@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <20030309001008$0732@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <20030309001008$747c@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <20030309001008$6342@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-03-15 10:47         ` Kai Henningsen
2003-03-13 16:21 Ed Vance
2003-03-15 14:31 ` Horst von Brand
2003-03-12 19:00 Kaz Kylheku
2003-03-03 17:02 Adam J. Richter
2003-03-02  2:23 Adam J. Richter
2003-03-03 15:26 ` Edward S. Marshall
2003-03-03 23:06   ` Daniel Phillips
2003-02-26 20:02 BitBucket: GPL-ed BitKeeper clone Pavel Machek
2003-03-01 18:05 ` BitBucket: GPL-ed KitBeeper clone Pavel Janík
2003-03-01 18:39   ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-03-01 22:43     ` Pavel Janík
2003-03-02  9:11       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-03-02  9:30         ` John Bradford
2003-03-02  9:32           ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-03-03 12:39           ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-03 14:12           ` Alan Cox
2003-03-03 13:57             ` John Bradford
2003-03-03 14:22               ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-03-03 15:08                 ` John Bradford
2003-03-03 17:50                   ` David Lang
2003-03-03 19:37                   ` Pavel Machek
2003-03-03 19:49                     ` John Bradford
2003-03-03 14:22               ` Charles Cazabon
2003-03-02  9:57         ` Pavel Janík
2003-03-03  8:05       ` Helge Hafting
2003-03-03  8:28         ` Bernd Eckenfels
2003-03-01 20:58   ` Paul Fulghum
2003-03-02  4:52     ` Mike Galbraith
2003-03-03  0:02   ` Pavel Machek

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