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From: "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <gilbertd@treblig.org>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Are linux-fs's drive-fault-tolerant by concept?
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:41:20 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030419184120.GH669@gallifrey> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030419200712.3c48a791.skraw@ithnet.com>

Hi,
  Besides the problem that most drive manufacturers now seem to use
cheese as the data storage surface, I think there are some other
problems:

  1) I don't trust drive firmware.
	2) I don't think all drives are set to remap sectors by default.
	3) I don't believe that all drivers recover neatly from a drive error.
	4) It is OK saying return the drive and get a new one - but many of
	   us can't do this in a commercial environment where the contents of
		 the drive are confidential - leading to stacks of dead drives
		 (often many inside their now short warranty periods).
		 
To be fair I'm not sure if it is only the drive firmware I don't trust -
it could be the controllers and the IDE drivers as well - I don't know.

While RAID works well for drives that just go pop and die, for drives
with dodgy firmware we just sit there and watch the filesystems decay.
I don't think the kernel can do much about that - but it is a sad state.

I'd find two things useful in this respect:
  1) A tool to check the consistency of a RAID - presuming I shut my
	RAID down safely I should actually be able to use the redundant
	information to test it; this should reveal corruption early.
	(Perhaps the kernel could check a few sectors a second in the
	background)

	2) A disc exerciser - something that I can use to see if this drive,
	connected to this controller, on this motherboard on this kernel
	actually works and keeps its data safe before I put it into live
	service.

Dave (After a few weeks of fighting pissy IDE hard drives)

 ---------------- Have a happy GNU millennium! ----------------------   
/ Dr. David Alan Gilbert    | Running GNU/Linux on Alpha,68K| Happy  \ 
\ gro.gilbert @ treblig.org | MIPS,x86,ARM,SPARC,PPC & HPPA | In Hex /
 \ _________________________|_____ http://www.treblig.org   |_______/

  reply	other threads:[~2003-04-19 18:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 74+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-04-19 16:04 Are linux-fs's drive-fault-tolerant by concept? Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-19 15:29 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-19 17:00   ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-19 22:04     ` Alan Cox
2003-04-20 16:24       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-20 13:59     ` John Bradford
2003-04-20 16:55       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-20 17:12         ` John Bradford
2003-04-20 17:21           ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-20 18:48             ` Alan Cox
2003-04-20 20:00               ` John Bradford
2003-04-21  1:51                 ` jw schultz
2003-04-19 21:13   ` Jos Hulzink
2003-04-20 16:07     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-20 16:40       ` John Bradford
2003-04-20 17:01         ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-20 17:20           ` John Bradford
2003-04-21  9:32             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-21  9:55               ` John Bradford
2003-04-21 11:24                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-21 11:50                   ` Alan Cox
2003-04-21 12:14                   ` John Bradford
2003-04-19 16:22 ` John Bradford
2003-04-19 16:36   ` Russell King
2003-04-19 16:45     ` John Bradford
2003-04-19 16:52   ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-19 20:04     ` John Bradford
2003-04-19 20:33       ` Andreas Dilger
2003-04-21  9:25         ` Denis Vlasenko
2003-04-21  9:42           ` John Bradford
2003-04-21 10:25             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-21 10:50               ` John Bradford
2003-04-19 20:38       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-20 14:21         ` John Bradford
2003-04-21  9:09           ` Denis Vlasenko
2003-04-21  9:35             ` John Bradford
2003-04-21 11:03               ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-21 12:04                 ` John Bradford
2003-04-21 11:22               ` Denis Vlasenko
2003-04-21 11:46                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-21 12:13                 ` John Bradford
2003-04-19 20:05     ` John Bradford
2003-04-19 23:13     ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-04-19 17:54   ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2003-04-25  0:07   ` Stewart Smith
2003-04-25  0:52     ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-04-25  7:13       ` John Bradford
     [not found] ` <20030419161011$0136@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-04-19 17:18   ` Florian Weimer
2003-04-19 18:07     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-19 18:41       ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert [this message]
2003-04-19 20:56         ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-19 21:15           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-20 10:51             ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-20 19:04               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-19 21:57         ` Alan Cox
2003-04-20 10:09         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-04-21  8:37         ` Denis Vlasenko
2003-05-05 12:38         ` Pavel Machek
2003-04-19 22:02     ` Alan Cox
2003-04-20  8:41       ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-04-25  0:11     ` Stewart Smith
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-04-20 15:06 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-20 15:19 ` John Bradford
2003-04-20 17:03 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-20 17:25 ` John Bradford
2003-04-20 17:28 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-21  9:36 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-20 17:28 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-20 17:44 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-20 17:44 Chuck Ebbert
     [not found] <mail.linux.kernel/20030420185512.763df745.skraw@ithnet.com>
     [not found] ` <03Apr21.020150edt.41463@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
2003-04-21 11:19   ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-21 11:52     ` Alan Cox
2003-04-21 14:14     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-05-06  7:03       ` Mike Fedyk

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