From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
To: "Downing, Thomas" <Thomas.Downing@ipc.com>
Cc: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Why DRM exists [was Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!]
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:20:41 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030430152041.GA22038@work.bitmover.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <170EBA504C3AD511A3FE00508BB89A9202032941@exnanycmbx4.ipc.com>
On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 10:52:27AM -0400, Downing, Thomas wrote:
> No, I don't think you are 'the world's worst communicator'. First, I was
> not alone in understanding you to say that the open source community as
> a class were prone to theft.
I am too the worst communicator! :-)
My point wasn't about theft, it was about reimplementation.
I stand behind that point, what I've seen for more than a decade is
reimplementation after reimplementation. I'm not saying there is no
value to that or that it is illegal or that there are no improvements
(compare Unix diff to GNU diff if you want to see some imrovements).
There is tons of value in having free versions of useful tools.
There is also tons of value in the creation of new work.
What I haven't seen is a lot of revolutionary work. All of that seems
to come from commercial companies and at a pretty slow pace. There are
a lot of false starts, commercial failures, whatever. But a few slam
dunks as well.
As someone who has extensive first hand experience at large and small
commercial companies and in the open source world, it's my take that
the open source guys are better at the evolutionary approach (faster,
for sure) but worse at the revolutionary approach.
A key point is that you need a baseline to evolve. The open source guys
aren't producing that baseline as far as I can see, the new stuff comes
from other sources. That's not an absolute statement, there are exceptions,
but as far as I can see, it's a true statement most of the time.
Another key point is that it costs a boatload more to produce something
new than to reimplement something and the corporations know that. It
doesn't cost more because they are dumb, it costs more because they have
to try lots of new ideas and only a tiny percentage of them pan out.
So if you were the organization spending the money to produce something
new and you knew that it was going to be copied, wouldn't you do something
to protect that? And if a world wide group of volunteers sprang up and
got well organized and became productive at reimplementation techniques,
wouldn't you be concerned? I think you might. If you were a powerful
corporation, you might lobby Congress for more laws to protect your
works, you might start a "Trusted Computing" initiative to make sure
that the data was all encrypted so that only your programs could access
that data, etc.
> My A produces your B; I don't like B, so I won't A. This seems to be
> your solution.
I'm not sure I've proposed a solution, I doubt it. I don't have a solution,
I'm trying to shine a light on what I see as a problem. I was hoping that
you had a solution.
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-04-30 15:08 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 150+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-04-30 14:52 Why DRM exists [was Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!] Downing, Thomas
2003-04-30 15:20 ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2003-04-30 15:55 ` Jeff Randall
2003-05-01 12:43 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-04-30 18:19 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-30 19:20 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-30 19:41 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-30 19:53 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-30 19:55 ` viro
2003-04-30 20:09 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-30 20:21 ` [Pointless Waffle] " John Bradford
2003-04-30 21:00 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-30 21:57 ` [Pointless Waffle] Re: Why DRM exists [was Re: Flame Linus to John Bradford
2003-04-30 18:58 ` Why DRM exists [was Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!] Edgar Toernig
2003-04-30 22:43 ` Paul Mackerras
2003-05-01 1:03 ` Larry McVoy
2003-05-01 12:27 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-05-01 13:11 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-01 17:40 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-05-01 23:40 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-01 19:06 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-01 3:16 Tom Lord
2003-04-30 18:39 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-30 16:21 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-30 17:24 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-30 15:53 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-30 13:11 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-30 13:59 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-30 14:49 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-04-30 16:01 ` Giuliano Pochini
2003-04-30 16:53 ` Dax Kelson
2003-04-30 17:21 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-30 17:45 ` Jim Penny
2003-04-30 19:09 ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-30 19:58 ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-05-01 2:20 ` Larry McVoy
2003-05-01 3:39 ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-05-09 11:04 ` Pavel Machek
2003-05-09 23:17 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-30 20:00 ` Dax Kelson
2003-05-01 11:44 ` David S. Miller
2003-05-02 19:00 ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-05-02 23:10 ` David S. Miller
2003-05-03 19:25 ` Larry McVoy
2003-05-06 11:25 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-05-06 12:13 ` David S. Miller
2003-05-09 10:59 ` Pavel Machek
2003-05-01 12:09 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-05-01 18:01 ` Gerhard Mack
2003-04-27 17:59 James Bottomley
2003-04-29 14:01 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-29 16:39 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-04-29 17:38 ` James Bottomley
2003-04-30 9:43 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-29 23:40 ` Robert White
2003-04-30 1:34 ` Rik van Riel
2003-04-30 10:03 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-30 20:37 ` Robert White
2003-04-30 20:59 ` David Schwartz
2003-05-01 9:03 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-05-01 19:49 ` David Schwartz
2003-05-01 20:27 ` Robert White
2003-05-01 23:08 ` David Schwartz
2003-05-02 0:54 ` Robert White
2003-05-02 3:10 ` David Schwartz
2003-05-02 3:34 ` David Schwartz
2003-05-02 13:43 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-30 20:48 ` David Schwartz
2003-04-24 3:59 Flame Linus to a crisp! Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 8:37 ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-24 8:59 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 15:37 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 18:35 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-24 22:29 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-27 14:21 ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-27 16:59 ` Why DRM exists [was Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!] Larry McVoy
2003-04-27 17:04 ` Ben Collins
2003-04-27 17:34 ` Michael Buesch
2003-04-27 18:41 ` Henrik Persson
2003-04-27 17:35 ` Måns Rullgård
2003-04-27 17:49 ` Mirar
2003-04-27 23:15 ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-04-27 17:59 ` Michael Buesch
2003-04-27 21:28 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-28 1:48 ` rmoser
2003-04-28 9:05 ` Måns Rullgård
2003-04-27 18:07 ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2003-04-27 18:35 ` Chris Adams
2003-04-27 18:50 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-27 19:11 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-04-27 20:13 ` Frank van Maarseveen
2003-04-27 20:34 ` walt
2003-04-27 21:26 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 22:07 ` Ross Vandegrift
2003-04-27 22:32 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-27 22:05 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 23:28 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 0:06 ` Ross Vandegrift
2003-04-28 11:03 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-29 18:06 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-28 9:06 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-04-28 14:55 ` Michael Buesch
2003-04-28 20:04 ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2003-04-28 20:18 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 20:22 ` Chris Adams
2003-04-28 21:24 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 21:40 ` Roman Zippel
2003-04-28 22:13 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-28 22:16 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-29 0:09 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-29 4:07 ` Dax Kelson
2003-04-29 5:08 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-29 16:40 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-04-29 21:45 ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-30 9:58 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-30 15:06 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-04-29 5:59 ` Theodore Ts'o
2003-04-29 16:41 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-04-29 14:35 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 22:34 ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-27 22:51 ` Matthew Kirkwood
2003-04-27 23:53 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 0:00 ` rmoser
[not found] ` <20030428001001.GP23068@work.bitmover.com>
2003-04-28 0:19 ` rmoser
2003-04-28 0:37 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 0:40 ` rmoser
2003-04-28 11:38 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-04-29 14:21 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-29 14:27 ` Henrik Persson
2003-04-29 19:56 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-29 20:35 ` Henrik Persson
2003-04-30 8:39 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-27 18:47 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-27 18:56 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-27 19:20 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-04-27 21:30 ` Jon Portnoy
2003-04-27 21:32 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 22:36 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-27 21:56 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 23:08 ` Matthew Kirkwood
2003-04-27 22:16 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 23:35 ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-27 22:07 ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-28 0:36 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-04-28 9:57 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-05-06 15:58 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-05-07 14:44 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-05-07 14:28 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-07 21:40 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-05-07 22:16 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-08 0:33 ` Kurt Wall
2003-04-28 11:26 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-05-06 15:59 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-04-28 22:50 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-29 14:46 ` Jeffrey Souza
2003-04-29 15:16 ` venom
2003-04-30 9:35 ` Jamie Lokier
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