From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S262056AbTEACIW (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:08:22 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S262073AbTEACIW (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:08:22 -0400 Received: from smtp.bitmover.com ([192.132.92.12]:56807 "EHLO smtp.bitmover.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S262056AbTEACIV (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:08:21 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:20:37 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Nicolas Pitre Cc: Larry McVoy , Dax Kelson , "Downing, Thomas" , Linux Kernel Mailing List Subject: Re: Why DRM exists [was Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!] Message-ID: <20030501022037.GC8676@work.bitmover.com> Mail-Followup-To: Larry McVoy , Nicolas Pitre , Larry McVoy , Dax Kelson , "Downing, Thomas" , Linux Kernel Mailing List References: <20030430172107.GA25347@work.bitmover.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=0.5, required 4.5, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 03:58:08PM -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > That's what I meant by chasing. If you are chasing the leader you are > > automatically more at risk because you are trying to play in the leader's > > playing field and they can change the rules to screw you up. You build > > a better playing field and you turn the tables, now the leader is the > > follower and they have to play by your rules. > > Then... if you're so confident about you remaining the leader in the SCM > world, why are you afraid of possible BK clone attempts? The leader will > _always_ be chased regardless. That's part of being a leader. Read my lips: It's not about BitKeeper It's not about BitKeeper It's not about BitKeeper The thread was about corporations and powers which are orders and orders of magnitude more powerful than we will ever be. But since you insist on harping on BK, I get what you are saying, but we are cranking out code faster than you can type. I have an engineer here who has over 100 active BK repositories, just that one person can code circles around all the BK cloners stacked up and then some. We're all like that, we're nuts, we live to code and we are pretty good at it. Linus has the BK source, ask him what he thinks. We're not worried that the BK cloners are going to keep up. Look at Subversion, that's a funded project, serious programmers (good ones), open source, etc. They admit that they can't do what BK can and we started more or less at the same time (I worked alone for a year or so before they started but our teams started up about the same time). It's absolutely true that I'm pissed off at the kernel people looking at cloning BK. Why shouldn't I be? We busted our ass to produce a much better tool to help out the kernel effort and got "rewarded" with people saying they'll clone it. That reaction just disgusts me. Those people ought to consider the benefits that BK has provided, the fact that any free replacement is years away, and the fact that we could pull the plug tomorrow and shut down the free use of BK. Balance your actions against the reactions. Yeah, I'm pissed. If you were me you would be livid. It sucks to try and help and be distrusted and crapped on. We've had 5 years of "you're just evil corporate bastards" and so far we have never done a single thing to deserve that. We've done nothing but provide the best technology we can possibly build for free. Whatever, that's life, we certainly didn't do this for the love and rewards we would get from the so called "community". But worried about these guys? Come on. Read Pavel's "source" tree. Read the mailing lists. It's absolutely true that I'm outraged at the attempts to clone our technology by the people we are helping. Threatened? Gimme a break. If you think we are threatened you don't have the foggiest idea of how good our technology is, how good our programmers are, or how dedicated we are to making the best solution. As one open source luminary said "It will take them 5 years to catch up to where you were last year and unless you guys are idiots you'll be more than 5 years ahead of them then". Exactly. Nobody here is sitting back and resting, we think what we have is garbage and have a clear vision as to how to make it be great. We're doing that. If the copiers can do better, that's very cool, but we'll probably respond by hiring them if they are really that good, we're always looking for people as passionate as we are about this stuff. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm