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From: William Lee Irwin III <wli@holomorphy.com>
To: Nick Piggin <piggin@cyberone.com.au>
Cc: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@pobox.com>,
	jt@hpl.hp.com,
	Linux kernel mailing list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Pontus Fuchs <pof@users.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: Announce: ndiswrapper
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:38:48 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20031120043848.GG19856@holomorphy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3FBC402E.6070109@cyberone.com.au>

William Lee Irwin III wrote:
>> We'd lose a few things, like vmware, but it's not worth the threat of
>> vendors migrating en masse to NDIS/etc. emulation layers and dropping
>> all spec publication and source drivers, leaving us entirely at the
>> mercy of BBB's (Buggy Binary Blobs) to do any io whatsoever.
>> Seriously, the binary-only business has been doing us a disservice, and
>> is threatening to do worse.

On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 03:16:46PM +1100, Nick Piggin wrote:
> You have to admit its good for end users though. And indirectly, what
> is good for them is good for us. Take the nvidia example: end users get
> either a binary driver or nothing. If we were somehow able to stop
> nvidia from distributing their binary driver, they would say "OK".
> I don't advocate making it easy to do non native drivers of course.

I'm not convinced it is good for end users. They _think_ they're
getting something that's supported by Linux, but are instead getting
something highly problematic that ties them to specific kernel
versions and cuts off most, if not all, avenues of support available.

It's very much a second-class flavor of open source. They dare not
change the kernel version lest the binary-only trainwreck explode.
They dare not run with the whiz-bang patches going around they're
interested in lest the binary-only trainwreck explode. It may oops
in mainline, and all they can do is wait for a tech support line to
answer. Well, they're a little better than that, they have hackers
out and about, but you're still stuck waiting for a specific small
set of individuals and lose all of the "many eyes" advantages.


-- wli

  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-11-20  4:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-11-20  3:11 Announce: ndiswrapper Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-20  3:26 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-11-20  3:34   ` Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-21 12:05     ` Vojtech Pavlik
2003-11-21 17:25       ` Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-21 17:30         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-11-21 17:43           ` Vojtech Pavlik
2003-11-21 17:48           ` Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-21 17:50         ` Vojtech Pavlik
2003-11-20  4:00   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-11-20  4:16     ` Nick Piggin
2003-11-20  4:35       ` Neil Brown
2003-11-20  4:49         ` Nick Piggin
2003-11-20  4:57           ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-11-20  5:05             ` Nick Piggin
2003-11-20  6:50               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2003-11-20  5:27           ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-11-20  5:36             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-11-20  5:36             ` Nick Piggin
2003-11-20  4:38       ` William Lee Irwin III [this message]
2003-11-20  4:59         ` Nick Piggin
2003-11-20  5:12           ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-11-20  5:27             ` Nick Piggin
2003-11-24 15:40               ` Rik van Riel
2003-11-20 12:41           ` Diego Calleja García
2003-11-20 13:04             ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-11-20 20:24             ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2003-11-20  5:11         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-11-20  9:56         ` Ingo Oeser
2003-11-20 13:15           ` Ralph Metzler
2003-11-20  6:52       ` Matt Mackall
2003-11-20  7:40         ` Nick Piggin
2003-11-20 10:13         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-11-20 10:17           ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-11-20 22:47             ` Bill Davidsen
2003-11-20 22:59               ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-11-20 23:26                 ` Oliver Hunt
2003-11-20 23:32                 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-11-20 13:19         ` Gene Heskett
2003-11-20 23:15         ` Bill Davidsen
2003-11-20  5:25     ` Jeff Garzik
2003-11-20  5:26       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-11-20  6:54         ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2003-11-20 17:27           ` Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-20 23:57             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2003-11-21  0:03               ` Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-20 16:47       ` Jason Lunz
2003-11-20 17:36         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-11-20 17:24     ` Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-20 17:48       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-11-20 18:03       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-11-20 23:01       ` Bill Davidsen
2003-11-21  5:48         ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-11-21  7:26           ` Linus Torvalds
2003-11-21  7:37             ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-11-21  7:47             ` Nuno Silva
2003-11-21  7:51               ` Linus Torvalds
2003-11-20 10:55 ` Pavel Machek
2003-11-20 17:22   ` Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-20 23:04 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-11-20 23:45   ` Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-21 17:08     ` Bill Davidsen
2003-11-23 23:13 ` Jan Rychter
     [not found] <TNwv.6Lz.7@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <TPHV.1vf.1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <TQXu.420.11@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-11-21  2:53     ` Andrew Miklas
2003-11-21 10:33       ` Maciej Zenczykowski
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-11-20 23:53 Mudama, Eric
2003-11-21  0:00 ` Jean Tourrilhes
2003-11-21  1:01   ` Bob McElrath
2003-11-24 17:42     ` Pavel Machek
2003-11-21  7:58   ` Jan De Luyck
2003-11-21  8:59   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-11-18 11:02 Pontus Fuchs
2003-11-18 12:51 ` Christian Axelsson
2003-11-18 13:26   ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-11-18 13:37     ` Christian Axelsson
2003-11-18 13:49     ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-11-18 14:02       ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-11-18 13:59 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-11-18 14:14   ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-11-18 14:49     ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-11-18 15:31       ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-11-18 14:19   ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-11-18 14:31   ` Davide Libenzi
2003-11-18 22:22 ` Pavel Machek

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