From: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
To: Larry McVoy <lm@work.bitmover.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>,
Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>,
Erik Andersen <andersen@codepoet.org>,
Zwane Mwaikambo <zwane@arm.linux.org.uk>,
Paul Adams <padamsdev@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Linux GPL and binary module exception clause?
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:19:00 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20031206211900.GA9034@thunk.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20031206175041.GD28765@work.bitmover.com>
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 09:50:41AM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote:
> The sticky one is the one where we started, kernel modules. Linus is
> saying that kernel modules are covered by the GPL because they are
> combined with the kernel. I think his reasoning is weak and unlikely
> to be upheld by the courts. If we remove the issue of inline functions
> for a moment then we are talking about pure API's and there is no way
> that the courts are going to uphold that a copyright license can cross a
> pure API (famous last words). Well, no way if both sides of the dispute
> have equally good lawyers, without that who knows.
I had a law professor from the MIT Sloan School of Technology, who
when I posed the question informally, said that the FSF would be
laughed out of court if they tried to claim that the GPL infected
across API's. But Larry's right, in the U.S. at least, you get the
best justice money can buy, and with enough high-paid lawyers and
lobbyist, you can probably pervert the system any way you like ---
witness the RIAA and DMCA.
But that aside, does the Open Source community really want to push for
the legal principal that just because you write an independent program
which uses a particular API, the license infects across the interface?
That's essentially interface copyrights, and if say the FSF were to
file an amicus curiae brief support that particular legal principle in
an kernel modules case, it's worthwhile to think about how Microsoft
and Apple could use that case law to f*ck us over very badly.
It would mean that we would not be able to use Microsoft DLL's in
programs like xine. It would mean that programs like Crossover office
wouldn't work. It would mean that Apple could legally prohibit people
from writing enhancements to MacOS (for example, how do all of the
various extensions in Mac OS 9 work? They link into the operating
system and modify its behaviour. If they are therefore a derived work
of MacOS, then Apple could screw over all of the people who write
system extensions of MacOS.)
Be careful of what you wish for, before you get it. The ramifications
of the statement that just because a device driver is written for
Linux, that it is presumptively a derived work of Linux unless proven
otherwise, is amazingly scary. Fortunately, we can hope that the law
professor I talked to was right, and that such a claim would be
laughed out of court. But if it isn't, look to Microsoft and other
unsavory companies to use that kind of case law to completely screw us
to the wall.....
- Ted
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-12-06 21:19 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 275+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-12-04 23:50 Linux GPL and binary module exception clause? Paul Adams
2003-12-05 0:07 ` Nick Piggin
2003-12-05 2:07 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-05 15:57 ` Thierry Vignaud
2003-12-05 4:23 ` Peter Chubb
2003-12-05 4:42 ` Nick Piggin
2003-12-05 8:23 ` Peter Chubb
2003-12-05 17:19 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-05 18:42 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2003-12-05 5:13 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-12-05 5:26 ` Hua Zhong
2003-12-05 6:34 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-05 6:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-05 11:16 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-05 13:34 ` Anders Karlsson
2003-12-05 14:03 ` Ryan Anderson
2003-12-05 16:38 ` Shawn Willden
2003-12-05 16:54 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-12-05 17:03 ` Shawn Willden
2003-12-05 22:36 ` Derek Fawcus
2003-12-05 17:34 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-05 17:35 ` Hua Zhong
2003-12-05 18:12 ` Filip Van Raemdonck
2003-12-05 18:37 ` Hua Zhong
2003-12-05 19:56 ` 'Filip Van Raemdonck'
2003-12-05 20:26 ` Hua Zhong
2003-12-06 0:08 ` Filip Van Raemdonck
2003-12-05 19:55 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-05 20:14 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-05 21:16 ` Shawn Willden
2003-12-09 0:17 ` Kernel 2.6-test10 on an Opteron Ananda Bhattacharya
2003-12-09 12:16 ` Petr Sebor
2003-12-09 20:31 ` bill davidsen
2003-12-08 15:38 ` Linux GPL and binary module exception clause? Jesse Pollard
2003-12-05 14:59 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-05 19:15 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-05 18:44 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-05 19:09 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-12-05 19:22 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-12-10 13:52 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 15:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 15:32 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 16:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 16:34 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 17:10 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 17:25 ` Chris Friesen
2003-12-10 17:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 17:56 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 18:02 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 18:08 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 18:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 18:38 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 19:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-11 0:50 ` Driver API (was Re: Linux GPL and binary module exception clause?) Hannu Savolainen
2003-12-11 4:01 ` Peter Chubb
2003-12-11 15:47 ` Jason Kingsland
2003-12-11 22:47 ` Peter Chubb
2003-12-11 10:06 ` viro
2003-12-11 12:47 ` Hannu Savolainen
2003-12-11 13:33 ` viro
2003-12-11 14:54 ` Hannu Savolainen
2003-12-10 18:37 ` Linux GPL and binary module exception clause? Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-12-10 19:51 ` Hua Zhong
2003-12-10 20:09 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-11 1:24 ` Andrew Pimlott
2003-12-11 7:43 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-11 8:11 ` Hua Zhong
2003-12-11 8:37 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-11 18:22 ` Hua Zhong
2003-12-11 21:20 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-11 21:59 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-11 22:42 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-12 5:39 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-12 7:21 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-12 7:39 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-12 7:56 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-12 9:27 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-10 18:14 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-10 18:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 19:48 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-11 7:32 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-11 14:03 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-12-10 22:49 ` Oliver Hunt
2003-12-10 17:15 ` Hua Zhong
2003-12-10 17:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 19:32 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 22:43 ` Jason Kingsland
2003-12-10 22:49 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 23:11 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 23:24 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 19:48 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-10 21:15 ` viro
2003-12-10 22:36 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-10 23:13 ` viro
2003-12-11 15:29 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-11 18:47 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-11 18:55 ` Nick Piggin
2003-12-11 22:18 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-10 22:18 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 22:25 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 23:38 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-11 1:03 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-11 14:46 ` Ingo Molnar
2003-12-10 23:39 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-12-11 17:44 ` Robin Rosenberg
2003-12-11 17:56 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-12-11 18:16 ` Nick Piggin
2003-12-11 18:50 ` Mihai RUSU
2003-12-11 18:37 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-11 12:04 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-10 17:49 ` Jörn Engel
2003-12-10 18:16 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-05 19:25 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-05 19:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-05 15:50 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-12-05 18:44 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-06 0:02 ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-12-05 18:44 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-10 13:16 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 15:02 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-10 20:37 ` Theodore Ts'o
2003-12-11 16:26 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-05 13:52 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-12-05 0:09 ` Oliver Hunt
2003-12-05 10:55 ` Russell King
2003-12-05 0:46 ` Erik Andersen
2003-12-05 0:58 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-12-05 1:03 ` Erik Andersen
2003-12-05 1:21 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-05 1:30 ` Hua Zhong
2003-12-05 1:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-06 3:00 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-06 4:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-06 5:14 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-06 5:48 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-06 17:14 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-06 15:38 ` Theodore Ts'o
2003-12-06 16:47 ` Jason Kingsland
2003-12-06 21:30 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-06 21:42 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-07 13:01 ` Ingo Molnar
2003-12-07 22:11 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-06 14:13 ` Andrew Pimlott
2003-12-06 17:50 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-06 21:19 ` Theodore Ts'o [this message]
2003-12-06 21:45 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-08 16:34 ` Andrew Pimlott
2003-12-11 12:37 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-11 12:42 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-11 12:58 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-12 20:26 ` Brian Beattie
2003-12-13 12:03 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-13 15:04 ` jeff millar
2003-12-13 17:27 ` Gene Heskett
2003-12-14 0:51 ` Linux, Inc. (Re: Linux GPL and binary module exception clause?) Andre Hedrick
2003-12-14 1:06 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-14 2:40 ` David S. Miller
2003-12-14 2:37 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-14 6:55 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-14 6:35 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-11 13:54 ` Linux GPL and binary module exception clause? Andrew Pimlott
2003-12-11 15:12 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-05 3:58 ` Jason Kingsland
2003-12-05 1:58 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-05 4:58 ` Erik Andersen
2003-12-05 6:34 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-05 6:43 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-05 2:07 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-05 7:39 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2003-12-05 1:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 12:57 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 15:14 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 15:25 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 18:58 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-12 19:40 ` Pavel Machek
2003-12-12 22:08 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-12 23:06 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-12-12 23:43 ` Pavel Machek
2003-12-15 18:01 ` Adam Sampson
2003-12-15 21:12 ` Andre Hedrick
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-12-18 9:12 Randy Zagar
2003-12-18 9:51 ` Thorsten Glaser
2003-12-18 9:55 ` Daniel Newby
2003-12-18 14:24 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-19 7:56 ` Andre Hedrick
[not found] <fa.go3ahvi.h68o2q@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.nk4vl6d.g0181@ifi.uio.no>
2003-12-12 3:03 ` walt
2003-12-10 19:06 Manfred Spraul
2003-12-09 6:20 Paul Zimmerman
2003-12-09 13:22 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-12-09 14:12 ` Dale Whitchurch
2003-12-09 20:47 ` bill davidsen
2003-12-09 23:47 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-10 14:30 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-10 14:17 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-10 16:10 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-12-10 17:58 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-11 15:01 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-07 2:34 gary ng
2003-12-08 16:08 ` Alex Bennee
2003-12-08 16:26 ` gary ng
2003-12-06 12:31 Matt
2003-12-05 22:43 gary ng
2003-12-05 23:11 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-06 0:07 ` gary ng
[not found] <732BE51FE9901143AE04411A11CC465602F155F3@evtexc02.tc.fluke.com>
2003-12-05 17:05 ` David Dyck
2003-12-05 18:51 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-12-05 11:35 Adam J. Richter
2003-12-05 11:25 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-05 15:36 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
[not found] <YPep.5Y5.21@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <Z3AK-Qw-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-12-04 17:05 ` Ihar 'Philips' Filipau
2003-12-04 17:57 ` Thierry Vignaud
2003-12-05 11:11 ` Helge Hafting
2003-12-05 12:12 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2003-12-05 14:51 ` Ihar 'Philips' Filipau
2003-12-03 23:22 Jason Kingsland
2003-12-03 22:58 Xose Vazquez Perez
2003-12-03 21:31 Kendall Bennett
2003-12-03 21:47 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-12-03 23:33 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-03 22:11 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-12-03 23:33 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-03 23:40 ` bill davidsen
2003-12-04 0:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-04 0:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-04 6:25 ` Karim Yaghmour
2003-12-06 0:08 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-06 2:28 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-06 9:55 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-06 10:51 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-12-08 18:58 ` Karim Yaghmour
2003-12-09 20:26 ` bill davidsen
2003-12-09 21:46 ` Craig Milo Rogers
2003-12-12 11:36 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-12-12 15:27 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-12-10 14:09 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 14:25 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-10 14:46 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 15:05 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-10 15:11 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 15:49 ` Aron Rubin
2003-12-10 15:59 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-10 16:06 ` Larry McVoy
2003-12-10 16:22 ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-10 18:38 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-04 19:24 ` viro
2003-12-13 0:11 ` Nix
2003-12-13 0:25 ` viro
2003-12-13 15:01 ` Nix
2003-12-04 0:29 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-04 0:52 ` Aaron Smith
2003-12-04 1:47 ` David Lang
2003-12-04 1:20 ` Aaron Smith
2003-12-04 4:48 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-12-04 15:21 ` Jason Kingsland
2003-12-04 15:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-05 1:58 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-05 2:43 ` Jason Kingsland
2003-12-05 13:09 ` Pat Erley
2003-12-05 18:44 ` Kendall Bennett
2003-12-10 13:06 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-05 13:49 ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-12-10 13:43 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 16:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 18:33 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 19:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-10 20:15 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 21:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2003-12-10 21:05 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-10 21:17 ` Ingo Molnar
2003-12-10 22:59 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-12-11 0:58 ` Rob Love
2003-12-11 10:56 ` Xavier Bestel
2003-12-11 7:26 ` Rob Landley
2003-12-05 17:29 ` Jason Kingsland
2003-12-05 17:50 ` Linus Torvalds
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