* Re: Slab allocator . . . cache? WTF is it?
2003-12-30 22:18 Slab allocator . . . cache? WTF is it? john moser
@ 2003-12-30 23:01 ` Fox!MURDER
2003-12-30 23:04 ` Doug McNaught
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Fox!MURDER @ 2003-12-30 23:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel; +Cc: bluefoxicy
Hi,
I'm kind of a kernel-dev newbie but I'll try to explain my understanding
in BFU-friendly way.
The cache you're seeing here is a memory used to store IO requests and
data when you request some operation on IO. For example if you are
writing to hard drive then (if your partition is not mounted with sync
option or its not some special case) the data you are writing are put in
the cache and the disk starts writing. And because your memory is fast,
let's say it can do a 500MiB/s, then your write is completed in 0.1sec
and your program can continue doing other stuff. Data you requested to
write to the drive will get written as soon as it is possible (or with a
small amounts of data as soon as some timer reaches zero - this is to
provide). But because your disk is able to write only let's say a
20MiB/s and you are writing a 50MiB file the write without using cache
would take about 2.5 seconds before your program can continue. So you
are having a 25 times faster write at user level with cache than
without. You could probably see it even better when reading lot of small
files (ie. grepping a lot of text files), where the drive would have to
seek for each request, but kernel can read ahead more data than was
actually requested guessing that you will request them later anyway and
put them in cache. And when you request them you get them at the speed
of your memory. So cache has (almost) nothing to do with swap and its
on the same line as swap just because it fits better:P. Kernel is trying
to be smart about swap and cache so it will swap out programs out of
memory when you are really not using them to be able to use the memory
for cache that can really speed up your system.
Well I believe this is correct, if not please somebody be so kind and
correct me before beating me with a kernel tarball :).
Tomas Zvala
john moser wrote:
>Mem: 775616k total, 747740k used, 27876k free, 96584k buffers
>Swap: 250480k total, 71340k used, 179140k free, 298852k cached
>
>
>This is somewhat distressing. Last time this happened, I started opening every
>program I had (including every OpenOffice.org product and every browser I had
>installed), and the "cached" value dropped quickly.
>
>I'm wondering, what IS cache? It seems to increase even when swap is not used,
>and sometimes when there's no swap partition enabled. It also seems to cause
>me to run into swap when I have ample ram available, assuming that cache is just
>some sort of cache that is copied from and mirrors another portion of ram for
>some sort of speed increase. It's wasteful to me, and I want to more understand
>its implimentation and its purpose, and in all honesty limit its impact if possible.
>I got this RAM upgrade because I was using about 676M of RAM total, including swap,
>at peak; and now I find myself using 820M RAM at peak and about 750-800 continually.
>
>As always, i'm not on the list, so I'd prefer to be CC'd replies.
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread* Re: Slab allocator . . . cache? WTF is it?
2003-12-30 22:18 Slab allocator . . . cache? WTF is it? john moser
2003-12-30 23:01 ` Fox!MURDER
@ 2003-12-30 23:04 ` Doug McNaught
2003-12-30 23:20 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-30 23:50 ` Mike Fedyk
3 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Doug McNaught @ 2003-12-30 23:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bluefoxicy; +Cc: linux-kernel
john moser <bluefoxicy@linux.net> writes:
> I'm wondering, what IS cache? It seems to increase even when swap
> is not used, and sometimes when there's no swap partition enabled.
> It also seems to cause me to run into swap when I have ample ram
> available, assuming that cache is just some sort of cache that is
> copied from and mirrors another portion of ram for some sort of
> speed increase. It's wasteful to me, and I want to more understand
> its implimentation and its purpose, and in all honesty limit its
> impact if possible.
Short answer: cache is the use of memory to store what would otherwise
have to be read from disk, like parts of frequently used files etc.
Linux will trade off cache against other RAM needs like program memory
on an ongoing basis, and (almost always) does a really good job of it.
Don't be alarmed about going into swap somewhat in normal
operation--Linux is storing less important data on the disk to make
more room in RAM for "hot" data. Obviously, if you have hundreds of
megs in swap or it grows quickly, you may need to look at it.
> I got this RAM upgrade because I was using about 676M of RAM total,
> including swap, at peak; and now I find myself using 820M RAM at
> peak and about 750-800 continually.
That means the kernel is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. If
memory isn't needed by programs and isn't used for cache, it just goes
to waste, so Linux tries to use it for one or the other. :)
-Doug
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* RE: Slab allocator . . . cache? WTF is it?
2003-12-30 22:18 Slab allocator . . . cache? WTF is it? john moser
2003-12-30 23:01 ` Fox!MURDER
2003-12-30 23:04 ` Doug McNaught
@ 2003-12-30 23:20 ` David Schwartz
2003-12-30 23:50 ` Mike Fedyk
3 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: David Schwartz @ 2003-12-30 23:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bluefoxicy, linux-kernel
> Mem: 775616k total, 747740k used, 27876k free, 96584k buffers
> Swap: 250480k total, 71340k used, 179140k free, 298852k cached
>
>
> This is somewhat distressing. Last time this happened, I started
> opening every
> program I had (including every OpenOffice.org product and every
> browser I had
> installed), and the "cached" value dropped quickly.
So, as you've seen, when the kernel needs memory, it can easily throw its
cached data away and gain as much free memory as it needs.
> I'm wondering, what IS cache? It seems to increase even when
> swap is not used,
> and sometimes when there's no swap partition enabled. It also
> seems to cause
> me to run into swap when I have ample ram available,
All true, all good. No matter how much RAM you have available, odds are you
are moving more dat to and from disk then you have RAM. So it sometimes
makes sense to swap stuff to make room for more cache.
> assuming
> that cache is just
> some sort of cache that is copied from and mirrors another
> portion of ram for
> some sort of speed increase.
More typically, it contains copies of data that was written to or read from
disk in case it is requested (again).
> It's wasteful to me,
Huh? Why do you say that?
> and I want to
> more understand
> its implimentation and its purpose, and in all honesty limit its
> impact if possible.
> I got this RAM upgrade because I was using about 676M of RAM
> total, including swap,
> at peak; and now I find myself using 820M RAM at peak and about
> 750-800 continually.
If you don't want the computer to use the RAM, take the RAM out of the
computer. The computer will use all of the RAM you give it. Why shouldn't
it?
DS
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Slab allocator . . . cache? WTF is it?
2003-12-30 22:18 Slab allocator . . . cache? WTF is it? john moser
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2003-12-30 23:20 ` David Schwartz
@ 2003-12-30 23:50 ` Mike Fedyk
2003-12-31 3:27 ` Mike Fedyk
3 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Mike Fedyk @ 2003-12-30 23:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: john moser; +Cc: linux-kernel
On Tue, Dec 30, 2003 at 02:18:58PM -0800, john moser wrote:
> I'm wondering, what IS cache? It seems to increase even when swap is not used,
> and sometimes when there's no swap partition enabled. It also seems to cause
> me to run into swap when I have ample ram available, assuming that cache is just
> some sort of cache that is copied from and mirrors another portion of ram for
> some sort of speed increase.
First of all, does it swap out and stay swapped out, or does it swap in and
out constantly?
What kernel version are you running?
The cache, or pagecache is at the core of Linux' memory management. When
you start an application (or process) it first maps the file into the cache,
and then executes it. So the cached value also counts the parts of the
files used recently. It gets much more complicated, but you're invited to
learn more about it. I'm sure someone else can give you a few URLs with
more details.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread