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From: Robin Rosenberg <robin.rosenberg.lists@dewire.com>
To: viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk
Cc: Linux kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: JFS default behavior
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 01:07:26 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200402150107.26277.robin.rosenberg.lists@dewire.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20040214232935.GK8858@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk>

On Sunday 15 February 2004 00.29, you wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 12:06:23AM +0100, Robin Rosenberg wrote:
> > The  "sequence of bytes" idea is a legacy from prehistoric times when byte == character
> > was true.
> 
> Bullshit.  It has _nothing_ to characters, wide or not.  For system filenames
> are opaque.  The only things that have special meanings are:
> 	octet 0x2f ('/') splits the pathname into components
> 	"." as a component has a special meaning
> 	".." as a component has a special meaning.
> That's it.  The rest is never interpreted by the kernel.
I know how it is (to some degree), and its wrong. The user sees inside the filename
and sees a string of characters, not a byte sequence.

> Try to realize that different users CAN HAVE DIFFERENT LOCALES.  On the same
> system.  And have files on the same fs.  Moreover, homedirs that used to be
> on different filesystems can end up one the same fs.  What iocharset would
> you use, then?  Sigh...
Ok, I've got the iocharset option wrong, god knows why. The problem 
however remains.

It seems you simply don't want to understand the problem, which is that users 
CAN HAVE DIFFERENT LOCALES on the same system and on different system. 
Sigh...

I less concerned with which solution than that a solution should be found. So it
seems no file system has a solution today. Still an iocharset option would relieve
the problem for removable media and muli-boot systems. Most linux machines
are essentially single user and have either the same locale for all users or all
users are using UTF-8 with their locale. It's not the locale, but the charset used
for encoding the locale. The rest cannot be helped.

-- robin

  reply	other threads:[~2004-02-15  0:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 135+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <04Feb13.163954est.41760@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
2004-02-14 14:27 ` JFS default behavior Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-14 15:40   ` viro
2004-02-14 17:47     ` Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-14 17:59       ` Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-14 23:06     ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-14 23:29       ` viro
2004-02-15  0:07         ` Robin Rosenberg [this message]
2004-02-15  2:41           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-15  3:33             ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-02-15  4:04               ` viro
2004-02-15  9:48                 ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-15 18:26                 ` yodaiken
2004-02-18  2:48               ` Unicode normalization (userspace issue, but what the heck) H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-20  9:48                 ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-02-16 15:05             ` stty utf8 Jamie Lokier
2004-02-16 16:10               ` Gerd Knorr
2004-02-16 22:03               ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-16 22:17                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 22:04               ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-16 18:36             ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Marc Lehmann
2004-02-16 18:49               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 19:26                 ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API Jeff Garzik
2004-02-16 19:48                   ` John Bradford
2004-02-16 19:48                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 20:20                       ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-16 20:26                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18  2:49                         ` Rob Landley
2004-02-16 20:21                       ` bert hubert
2004-02-16 20:33                         ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-18  2:58                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18  3:13                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18  3:22                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18  3:30                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18  5:30                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18 10:29                                   ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 11:49                                     ` Tomas Szepe
2004-02-18 11:59                                       ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 12:05                                         ` Tomas Szepe
2004-02-18 12:34                                           ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 15:35                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18 19:47                                     ` Tomas Szepe
2004-02-18 20:01                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18 21:22                                         ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 21:42                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18 11:24                               ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-18 11:33                             ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-18 16:47                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18 19:59                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18 20:08                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18  7:25                           ` bert hubert
2004-02-16 20:16                     ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-16 20:20                       ` Jeff Garzik
2004-02-16 21:10                       ` viro
2004-02-17  7:18                       ` jw schultz
2004-02-17  7:42                       ` Nick Piggin
2004-02-16 20:03                 ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Marc Lehmann
2004-02-16 20:23                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 20:58                     ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-17 14:12                       ` Dave Kleikamp
2004-02-16 22:26                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-16 22:40                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 22:52                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 13:15                           ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17  7:14                         ` Lehmann 
2004-02-17 11:20                           ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API Helge Hafting
2004-02-17 15:56                           ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Linus Torvalds
     [not found]                             ` <20040217161111.GE8231@schmorp.de>
2004-02-17 16:32                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 16:46                                 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 19:00                                   ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API Måns Rullgård
2004-02-17 20:57                                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 21:06                                       ` Alex Belits
2004-02-17 21:47                                         ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-22 15:32                                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2004-02-22 16:28                                             ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-22 21:53                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2004-02-18  7:23                                         ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-17 21:23                                       ` Matthew Kirkwood
2004-02-18 13:11                                   ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Matthew Garrett
2004-02-17 16:52                                 ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-17 16:54                                 ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API Stefan Smietanowski
2004-02-18  1:27                                   ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-18  2:08                                     ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 11:06                                       ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 20:37                                 ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-17 16:36                             ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 17:52                               ` viro
2004-02-17 19:29                                 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 19:45                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 20:30                                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 20:49                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 21:17                                         ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 19:51                                   ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 19:53                                   ` viro
2004-02-17 20:35                                     ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 20:40                                       ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 20:50                                         ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 21:04                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 21:16                                             ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 21:21                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18  0:52                                                 ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 22:50                                               ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18  6:48                                             ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-17 20:47                                       ` viro
2004-02-17 20:53                                         ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 20:59                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 21:06                                         ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 21:42                                         ` Alex Belits
2004-02-18  6:56                                           ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-18 20:37                                             ` Alex Belits
2004-02-18  3:11                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-17 20:38                                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-18  3:07                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-21 13:54                             ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-22 20:09                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-17  1:24                   ` Alex Belits
2004-02-17 21:09                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 21:48                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 22:19                       ` Alex Belits
     [not found] <1pvUz-6j-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <1pRVj-2am-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
2004-02-16 15:32   ` JFS default behavior Pascal Schmidt
2004-02-16 19:05     ` Eduard Bloch
2004-02-15 23:03 Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-16  3:45 ` Jan Knutar
2004-02-16  8:30   ` Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-16  8:54     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-02-16  6:21 ` jw schultz
2004-02-16 15:55   ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17  6:47     ` jw schultz
2004-02-17 21:37       ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 22:12         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18  9:59           ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-18 15:54             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18 23:58               ` Jamie Lokier
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-02-15 14:48 Pascal Schmidt
2004-02-16 14:24 ` Eduard Bloch
2004-02-12 16:50 JFS default behavior (was: UTF-8 in file systems? xfs/extfs/etc.) Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-13  3:03 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-13 18:06   ` Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-13 18:15     ` viro
2004-02-13 18:31       ` Richard B. Johnson
2004-02-13 18:50         ` JFS default behavior Ulrich Drepper

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