[Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Zenaan Harkness]

I think we need to somehow make it easy for manufacturers to submit
information about their hardware - something centralized, kernel- and
distro- neutral, that can be widely advertised to manufacturers.

Here is what I've found so far for id DBs, and it seems a bit all over
the place:

PCI
==============================
http://pciids.sourceforge.net/

Which has a submit new entry form, which asks for ID, Name, Comment and
Email only, here:
http://pciids.sourceforge.net/iii/?sub=1

Printers
==============================
http://www.linuxprinting.org/kpfeifle/LinuxKongress2002/Tutorial/VIII.Foomatic-Contribution/VIII.tutorial-handout-foomatic-contribution.html
Which has a forum for submission, and a list of information to
describe the printer, seems aimed at users:
      * Manufacturer's name
      * Model name
      * Mechanism type (as laser, inkjet, dot matrix, ...)
      * Color or black-and-white?
      * Maximum resolution claimed by the manufacturer and obtained by
        you with free software
      * Connection types (Parallel, USB, Ethernet, ...)
      * Maximum paper size
      * Special functionality (multi-function device, finishers, ...)
      * Type of consumables/refills (as "one black and one color
        cartridge", "toner/drum unit", ... not only "cartridge(s)")
      * How did you get it to work? Which driver(s) did you use and with
        which option settings? Which driver do you recommend? Did you
        apply special tricks (as hacking the driver's code, using an
        additional filter, ...) to get the printer to work?
      * Also reporting that a printer does not work at all is important
        for us, users should be warned before they buy a "Paperweight".
      * What is your impression of the results? Categorize your printer
        in one of the levels described on the database introduction page
        (http://www.linuxprinting.org/database.html).
Also has suggestions to manufacturers further below.

USB
==============================
http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids
http://www.linux-usb.org/
Various links, mailing lists, a working devices list, etc.
Also a link to Linux USB Guide:
http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/book1.html
No clear submission for manufacturers.

Firewire
==============================
Can't readily find anything with google.

=========
So, does it make sense to create a centralized repository, and/ or an
FAQ for manufacturers.

I really think it needs to be easy for manufacturers to supply
information. I have no doubt that there must be a standardized process
at MS whereby manufacturers can submit device, id, name and other driver
information directly to microsoft and have it included in the next
service pack. I'm guessing here though, but it does seem like we in the
free software community are playing catch up, and that that is in some
way simply an organizational problem.

All thoughts, suggestions, further links to add to the above list, etc,
very much appreciated.

Re: [Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Zenaan Harkness]

Please CC me.

thanks
zen

Re: [Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Cef (LKML)]

On Wed, 26 May 2004 15:08, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> I think we need to somehow make it easy for manufacturers to submit
> information about their hardware - something centralized, kernel- and
> distro- neutral, that can be widely advertised to manufacturers.

Somewhere that gathers all these sites together in one place (at least) is a 
good idea.

> Firewire
> ==============================
> Can't readily find anything with google.

There is a Hardware Compatibility list on http://linux1394.org that allows you 
to add devices ( http://linux1394.org/hcl.php ).

-- 
 Stuart Young (aka Cef)
 cef-lkml@optusnet.com.au is for LKML and related email only

Re: [Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Greg KH]

On Wed, May 26, 2004 at 03:08:13PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> I think we need to somehow make it easy for manufacturers to submit
> information about their hardware - something centralized, kernel- and
> distro- neutral, that can be widely advertised to manufacturers.

What kind of information?  Device ids are pretty useless in and of
themselves.  What we need are device specs in order to produce proper
drivers.  Without that information, just having a device id is
pointless.

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 04:29, Greg KH wrote:
> On Wed, May 26, 2004 at 03:08:13PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > I think we need to somehow make it easy for manufacturers to submit
> > information about their hardware - something centralized, kernel- and
> > distro- neutral, that can be widely advertised to manufacturers.
> 
> What kind of information?  Device ids are pretty useless in and of
> themselves.  What we need are device specs in order to produce proper
> drivers.  Without that information, just having a device id is
> pointless.

Except if a manufacturer actually went to the trouble of listing their
device id, name and email or web contact, then they may well get a
better picture of how many people are (attempting) to user their device
on a free os.

If, when I plug in my widget, I get a dialog saying "Your Funky Widget
X has been detected but has no driver, <click here> to send an email
requesting support." it is reassuring to me that my "OS" recognizes the
device, it is easy for me to see that there is currently no driver
(saves me googling for how long?) and makes it easy to register my
interest in getting support. Registration might go via this centralized
repository then to the company, for tracking.

So of course, the question is how many companies will submit only
device identification information?

Perhaps users can submit some, and surely at least _some_ companies,
and/ or their employees, will do so too.

Still pointless?

ta
zen

Re: [Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Valdis.Kletnieks]

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On Thu, 27 May 2004 05:34:11 +1000, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net>  said:
> Except if a manufacturer actually went to the trouble of listing their
> device id, name and email or web contact, then they may well get a
> better picture of how many people are (attempting) to user their device
> on a free os.

I suspect that the number of companies that have realized that there is a
market outside Wintel, but who haven't done *anything* to support it,
is vanishingly small.

> So of course, the question is how many companies will submit only
> device identification information?

Probably very few.  Among other things, doing that flags the company as
"yes, we *do* realize you guys are a market, but not one worth writing a
driver for".  That's worse PR for the company than "they haven't Heard
The Word yet...."


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Re: [Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Greg KH]

On Thu, May 27, 2004 at 05:34:11AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> If, when I plug in my widget, I get a dialog saying "Your Funky Widget
> X has been detected but has no driver, <click here> to send an email
> requesting support."

The kernel already spits out this information, it's up to userspace
tools to recognize it and create such a dialog if needed.  See the HAL
project for one such tool that is activly working on this.

The hotplug package already will automatically load drivers for new
devices, so that portion of what you are looking for is completed.

> it is reassuring to me that my "OS" recognizes the
> device, it is easy for me to see that there is currently no driver
> (saves me googling for how long?) and makes it easy to register my
> interest in getting support. Registration might go via this centralized
> repository then to the company, for tracking.
> 
> So of course, the question is how many companies will submit only
> device identification information?

See all of the different companies that today submit their info to the
pci sf.net site you linked to for that kind of information.

Remember, an id by itself is pointless.  We need specs and drivers that
work for those specs.  You should concentrate on that goal instead of
worrying about ids.

> Perhaps users can submit some, and surely at least _some_ companies,
> and/ or their employees, will do so too.
> 
> Still pointless?

As we are going to rip the pci.ids file out of the 2.7 kernel tree,
pretty much so :)

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 05:55, Greg KH wrote:
> Remember, an id by itself is pointless.  We need specs and drivers that
> work for those specs.  You should concentrate on that goal instead of
> worrying about ids.

Of course there would be provision for "submit willing to code", "submit
specs" etc - a support- and interest- garnering site.

> > Perhaps users can submit some, and surely at least _some_ companies,
> > and/ or their employees, will do so too.
> > 
> > Still pointless?
> 
> As we are going to rip the pci.ids file out of the 2.7 kernel tree,
> pretty much so :)

Hmm, I guess lkml is going to be pretty well kernel-centric.

Are you saying "it'll be ripped out and discarded forever" or
"ripped out and placed in userspace where it always shoulda been"?

I'm still not convinced that having comprehensive device recognition
is pointless (but I'm not trying to push something that excludes
drivers here either ...).

ta
zen

Re: [Fwd: Re: drivers DB and id/ info registration]

[Greg KH]

On Thu, May 27, 2004 at 06:08:08AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> 
> Hmm, I guess lkml is going to be pretty well kernel-centric.

Hasn't it always been?  :)

> Are you saying "it'll be ripped out and discarded forever" or
> "ripped out and placed in userspace where it always shoulda been"?

"Ripped out as it is already in userspace where it belongs".  Look in
the package that provides your 'lspci' binary.

> I'm still not convinced that having comprehensive device recognition
> is pointless (but I'm not trying to push something that excludes
> drivers here either ...).

That's fine.  Again, talk to the HAL people, they are working on this.

Good luck,

greg k-h