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From: William Lee Irwin III <wli@holomorphy.com>
To: John Bradford <john@grabjohn.com>
Cc: "Piszcz, Justin Michael" <justin.piszcz@mitretek.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@myrealbox.com>,
	Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>,
	Tom Felker <tcfelker@mtco.com>,
	Matthias Schniedermeyer <ms@citd.de>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: why swap at all?
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:16:14 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20040527161614.GG22648@holomorphy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200405271559.i4RFxqN3000359@81-2-122-30.bradfords.org.uk>

Quote from William Lee Irwin III <wli@holomorphy.com>:
>> Yes. You want swap so you can physically relocate anonymous pages in the
>> rare case one ends up somewhere it could cause memory pressure against
>> allocations that can only be satisfied by a restricted range of memory.

On Thu, May 27, 2004 at 04:59:52PM +0100, John Bradford wrote:
> I think you are assuming a 100% perfect VM system.  In practice, if
> the machine isn't heavily loaded, unnecessary swap is more likely to
> cause, (slight, and possibly negligable), slowdowns, than bring any
> noticable performance benefit.

First, the above not a performance issue to begin with. It's a workload
feasibility issue. Second, the only overhead of swap when it's unused
is vmallocspace. Third, the only way to eliminate the runtime overhead
of the swap layer is CONFIG_SWAP=n.

The above scenario is not particularly common, but can be "fatal" to
the critical applications whose allocations were infeasible. I'd
recommend using a small amount of swapspace on your 16GB machine, e.g.
256MB or 512MB. One method of removing this requirement that swapspace
be configured so the kernel can get itself out of this pathological
situation is to implement page migration, so that memory movement e.g.
between zones need not be carried out through a backing store.

-- wli

  reply	other threads:[~2004-05-27 16:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 146+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-05-27 12:31 why swap at all? Piszcz, Justin Michael
2004-05-27 12:41 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-05-27 15:59   ` John Bradford
2004-05-27 16:16     ` William Lee Irwin III [this message]
2004-06-03 13:38   ` Bill Davidsen
     [not found] <fa.amhil9e.o5kt1u@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.kfm8lru.1l2mdp4@ifi.uio.no>
2004-06-08 15:12   ` Ray Bryant
2004-06-08 15:15   ` Ray Bryant
2004-06-09 19:24     ` Bill Davidsen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-05-31 19:34 Michael Brennan
2004-05-31 20:29 ` John Bradford
2004-05-31 22:47   ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-31 23:30     ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-06-01 18:36       ` FabF
2004-06-01 19:02         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-01 19:53           ` FabF
2004-06-01 20:00             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-01 20:14               ` FabF
2004-06-01 20:22                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-01 21:15                   ` FabF
2004-06-01 21:40                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-03 13:54                     ` Bill Davidsen
2004-06-04  0:01                       ` Nick Piggin
2004-06-01 23:17               ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-06-02  5:38                 ` FabF
2004-06-02 11:42                   ` Con Kolivas
2004-06-02 12:22                     ` John Bradford
2004-06-02 12:22                       ` Con Kolivas
2004-06-02 17:06                     ` FabF
2004-06-03 14:14                     ` Bill Davidsen
2004-06-04  7:23                       ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-06-04 17:08                         ` Bill Davidsen
2004-06-15 14:55                           ` Charles Shannon Hendrix
2004-06-04  9:11                       ` Catalin BOIE
2004-06-04 17:24                         ` Bill Davidsen
2004-06-06 14:39                       ` Rik van Riel
2004-06-02 17:59                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-02 18:30                     ` FabF
2004-06-02 23:54                       ` Con Kolivas
2004-06-03 16:16                         ` FabF
2004-06-03 23:56                           ` Con Kolivas
2004-06-04  0:16                             ` Con Kolivas
2004-06-03 14:18                     ` Bill Davidsen
2004-06-03 14:27                       ` Con Kolivas
2004-06-02 17:52                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-02  3:50           ` Tim Connors
2004-06-02 17:45             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-01  8:34     ` John Bradford
2004-06-01  8:32       ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-06-01  8:50         ` John Bradford
2004-06-01  8:54           ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-06-01  9:10             ` John Bradford
2004-06-08  1:18               ` Tim Connors
2004-06-08  5:29                 ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-06-01  9:38   ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-06-01 10:13     ` Tim Connors
2004-06-01 10:24       ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-06-01 11:19         ` Tim Connors
     [not found] <fa.fegqf9v.kmidof@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.bqpvcrs.u648jq@ifi.uio.no>
2004-05-27 11:39   ` Andy Lutomirski
2004-05-28 21:37     ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-05-28 22:28       ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-05-29  7:31         ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-05-31 10:49         ` jlnance
2004-06-01 11:57           ` Lenar Lõhmus
2004-06-01 12:27             ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-06-01 16:49             ` jlnance
2004-06-02 18:38               ` John Hendrikx
2004-06-01 12:21           ` David B. Stevens
2004-05-27  5:37 Nick Piggin
2004-05-27 17:27 ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 12:34 Piszcz, Justin Michael
2004-05-26 12:24 Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 13:03 ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 13:27   ` Helge Hafting
2004-05-26 11:57 Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 12:19 ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 11:04 Nick Piggin
2004-05-26  6:38 Anthony DiSante
2004-05-26  7:31 ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26  7:55   ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-05-26  8:30     ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26  8:44       ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-26  9:34         ` John Bradford
2004-05-26  9:48           ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 10:10             ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2004-05-26 10:33               ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 10:58                 ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2004-05-26 11:19                   ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 12:27                     ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2004-05-27  5:38                       ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 12:37                     ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2004-05-26 13:06                       ` Gianni Tedesco
2004-05-26 13:41                         ` Matt H.
2004-05-26 13:55                       ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-27  5:14                       ` Tom Felker
2004-05-27  6:02                         ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-27  7:04                         ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-05-27  7:16                         ` Oliver Neukum
2004-05-26 10:45               ` Martin Olsson
2004-05-26 11:25                 ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 16:33                 ` David Schwartz
2004-05-26 16:58                   ` John Bradford
2004-05-26 23:32                     ` Kyle Moffett
2004-05-27  8:05                       ` John Bradford
2004-05-26 10:46             ` John Bradford
2004-05-26 11:46             ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 11:39           ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26  9:42         ` Anthony DiSante
2004-05-26  9:58           ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 20:11             ` Wakko Warner
2004-05-27  5:59               ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-27 14:34                 ` Wakko Warner
2004-05-26 10:40         ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 13:15           ` Helge Hafting
2004-05-26  9:09       ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-05-26 11:38         ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 12:12           ` Paulo Marques
2004-05-26 12:14           ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 12:40           ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-05-26 10:41       ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-05-26 12:07         ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 12:06           ` Marc-Christian Petersen
2004-05-26 12:19           ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-05-26 13:48             ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 12:33           ` Richard B. Johnson
2004-05-26 13:25             ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 12:30         ` Rik van Riel
2004-05-26 10:44       ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-05-26 11:49         ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 12:19       ` Rik van Riel
2004-05-26 12:55         ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26  8:27 ` Roger Luethi
2004-05-26  9:23   ` John Bradford
2004-05-26  9:30     ` Roger Luethi
2004-05-26 10:35       ` John Bradford
2004-05-26 10:37         ` Nick Piggin
2004-05-26 10:48           ` John Bradford
2004-05-26 13:01     ` Helge Hafting
2004-05-26  8:32 ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-05-26  9:00 ` Helge Hafting
2004-05-26  9:40   ` John Bradford
2004-05-26 13:06     ` Helge Hafting
2004-05-26  9:06 ` John Bradford
2004-05-26 12:31   ` Buddy Lumpkin
2004-05-26 10:02 ` Raphael Jacquot
2004-05-26 13:00 ` Satoshi Oshima
2004-05-26 13:38   ` William Lee Irwin III

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