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From: Elladan <elladan@eskimo.com>
To: Olaf Titz <olaf@bigred.inka.de>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Use NULL instead of integer 0 in security/selinux/
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:53:08 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20040713185308.GA9541@eskimo.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1BjmAw-0005MS-00@bigred.inka.de>

On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 11:47:58PM +0200, Olaf Titz wrote:
> > For some of us who are extremely familiar with C your argument is
> > confusing.  You make statements that sound like they are about the
> > definition of the C programming language when in fact they are
> > criticism of a given C programming style.
> >
> > Since I am already making distinctions 0 as the integer value and
> > 0 as the pointer constant when 0 is implicitly introduced.  It is
> > really not confusing to me in the case of manifest constants.
> 
> So the real question is why C has no "null" token like Java or Pascal
> and re-uses the "0" token (which is really no token by itself but a
> numeric-constant token which happens to have a special value).
> 
> If your argument holds that "0" in a pointer context really is a
> special token like Java's "null" (which is explicitly defined by the
> standard as a pointer different from any other pointer) then it would
> be possible to implement a compiler which not only defines NULL to
> -1L, as someone mentioned here, but actually generates an all-ones bit
> pattern out of the constant 0 when used in a pointer context, yet
> generates an all-zeros bit pattern when used in an integer context.
> It also would have to implement the implicit null-comparison in a
> boolean context appropriately.

This indeed is possible, and has been implemented in the past.  Some
segmented architectures use different segments for different data types,
and a segment tag is part of the appropriate null pointer.  Also,
obviously, some pointer types are different widths on some
architectures.

The C languages was defined in such a way that it works fine on such an
architecture.  int *p = 0;  will always result in the appropriate null
pointer for integers.

The one exception is if you have a variadic function, in which case you
have to cast the null pointer to the right type, eg. 
printf("%s\n", (char*)0);

What's not allowed in conformant portable C is clearing pointers to null
using memset.  That just results in a zero bit pattern.

Eg.,

struct foo {
	int *bar;
} x;
memset(&x, 0, sizeof(x));

However, implicit initializers are valid, and will fill in pointer types
with the appropriate null value, eg:

struct foo {
	int *bar;
} x = {};

In addition, defining NULL as (void*)0 is completely broken.  A void*
null pointer is not valid as a null pointer for some other type - void*
is a transitional type, it simply holds the bit values of other pointers
so you can cast them back later.

-J

  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-07-13 18:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-07-07 19:25 [PATCH] Use NULL instead of integer 0 in security/selinux/ Chris Wright
2004-07-08  3:12 ` Herbert Xu
2004-07-08  3:27   ` David S. Miller
2004-07-08  3:43     ` Miles Bader
2004-07-08  5:22       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-07-08  5:35         ` Miles Bader
2004-07-08 15:58           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-07-08 16:23             ` Dave Jones
2004-07-08 17:57               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-07-09 11:23             ` Roman Zippel
2004-07-10 19:41               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-07-11 10:29                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-07-11 10:54                   ` viro
2004-07-11 16:14                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-07-11 20:05                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-07-12 15:58                   ` Florian Weimer
2004-07-12 16:34                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-07-08 11:18         ` Herbert Xu
2004-07-08 13:10           ` Andreas Schwab
2004-07-08 13:56             ` Herbert Xu
2004-07-08 14:13               ` Andreas Schwab
2004-07-08  5:19   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-07-08 16:09     ` Timothy Miller
2004-07-08 16:21       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-07-08 16:27         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-07-08 16:52         ` Timothy Miller
     [not found]           ` <200407090056.51084.vda@port.imtp.ilyichevsk.odessa.ua>
2004-07-12 15:17             ` Timothy Miller
2004-07-12 16:12               ` Andreas Schwab
2004-07-12 16:51                 ` Andrew Pimlott
2004-07-15 16:15                 ` Timothy Miller
2004-07-09 20:36     ` Eric W. Biederman
2004-07-09 23:49       ` Paul Jackson
2004-07-10  1:43         ` Kyle Moffett
2004-07-10  1:47           ` Herbert Xu
2004-07-10 21:53             ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-07-10  6:18       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-07-10  6:23         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-07-10  6:58           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-07-10  9:48             ` Eric W. Biederman
2004-07-10 15:39           ` Roland Dreier
2004-07-11  2:45             ` Eyal Lebedinsky
2004-07-11 21:19             ` Olaf Titz
2004-07-10  9:39         ` Eric W. Biederman
2004-07-10  9:56           ` Herbert Xu
2004-07-11 21:47           ` Olaf Titz
2004-07-13  8:43             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-07-14  3:12               ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-07-13 18:53             ` Elladan [this message]
2004-07-14  3:15             ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-07-10 12:11         ` Roman Zippel
2004-07-10 21:59         ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-07-11  4:40           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-07-10  9:31       ` Eyal Lebedinsky
2004-07-10 22:07         ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-07-10 23:52         ` Paul Jackson
2004-07-11  0:12           ` Tim Wright
2004-07-12 22:03       ` Bill Davidsen
2004-07-10  8:18     ` Florian Weimer
2004-07-08 11:10   ` Richard B. Johnson
2004-07-08 11:28     ` Michael Buesch
2004-07-08 11:44       ` Martin Zwickel
2004-07-08 12:06         ` Michael Buesch
2004-07-08 12:38           ` [OT] NULL versus 0 (Re: [PATCH] Use NULL instead of integer 0 in security/selinux/) Kari Hurtta
2004-07-08 12:42             ` Michael Buesch
2004-07-08 12:57               ` Kari Hurtta
2004-07-08 15:25                 ` Herbert Xu
2004-07-10  8:22           ` [PATCH] Use NULL instead of integer 0 in security/selinux/ Florian Weimer
2004-07-08 11:43     ` P. Benie
2004-07-08 14:32       ` Richard B. Johnson
2004-07-08 15:00         ` Michael Poole
2004-07-08 15:30           ` P. Benie
2004-07-08 15:55           ` Andreas Schwab
2004-07-10  7:09         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-07-10  7:02       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-07-10  6:59     ` Andrea Arcangeli

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