From: Paul Jackson <pj@sgi.com>
To: Adrian Bunk <bunk@fs.tum.de>
Cc: akpm@osdl.org, corbet@lwn.net, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: New dev model (was [PATCH] delete devfs)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:28:39 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20040722152839.019a0ca0.pj@sgi.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20040722193337.GE19329@fs.tum.de>
> There's much worth in having a very stable kernel.
There certainly is. But the contribution that having a separate 2.7/2.8
kernel at the head (Linus, et. al.) end has to a user having a stable kernel
is not what you think it is.
The direction presented to us now is having smaller, more continuous,
steps in the head end, over having fewer larger, more disruptive steps.
Do we do all the incompatible changes in a big chunk, once every couple
of years, or do we do them one a week, ongoing.
Now, I repeat, this is at the head end. End users who want stability
aren't feeding directly off kernel.org anyway.
The affect downstream on real users is this. If the head end operates
in big chunky style, then as this big change flows downstream, it makes
transitions for distros, service providers and middlemen more costly and
difficult, creating expenses that must be passed on to the end user.
Yes - damming up the flow of changes creates stability. But if you're a
middleman, you don't need Linus to choose where to build the dam, and
when to open the flood gates. It's more efficient for you to choose for
yourself when to do that damming, based on your particular resources and
customer needs, rather than have to deal with hundred year floods and
draughts imposed on you by Zeus.
The end user always gets their stability, if only because they won't
upgrade a system that is "working".
And every change at the head end is disruptive for some poor slob.
The only perfectly compatible change is no change at all. We delude
ourselves if we think we can separate the "safe" fixes and additions
from the "unsafe" incompatible changes. Better that we should expend
some energy on smoothing out and minimizing the cost of change to those
downstream from us. This needs to be done the old-fashioned way, one
change at a time.
The question is whether we impose, on all those downstream from us,
occasional hundred year floods, or do we provide a steady stream, and
let them build their own little beaver dams, as suits their various and
diverse needs and business cycles.
The great lesson of capitalism over communism is that a thousand free
workers and investors, each optimizing their own little plot or
portfolio, beats a single centrally imposed five year plan, even if the
man pulling the levers is a genius such as Linus or Lenin (sorry, Linus,
couldn't resist ...).
--
I won't rest till it's the best ...
Programmer, Linux Scalability
Paul Jackson <pj@sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-07-22 22:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-07-21 14:15 [PATCH] delete devfs Greg KH
2004-07-21 14:26 ` Oliver Neukum
2004-07-21 14:35 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2004-07-21 14:52 ` Greg KH
2004-07-21 21:19 ` Jesse Stockall
2004-07-21 21:27 ` Greg KH
2004-07-21 21:53 ` Jesse Stockall
2004-07-21 22:05 ` Greg KH
2004-07-21 22:17 ` Jesse Stockall
2004-07-21 22:47 ` Oliver Neukum
2004-07-22 6:49 ` Greg KH
2004-07-22 9:55 ` Oliver Neukum
2004-07-22 10:08 ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-07-22 16:13 ` Matt Porter
2004-07-23 19:06 ` [RFC]: CONFIG_UNSUPPORTED (was: Re: [PATCH] delete devfs) R. J. Wysocki
2004-07-23 20:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-23 21:17 ` Russell King
2004-07-23 21:22 ` R. J. Wysocki
2004-07-23 23:35 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-07-23 22:01 ` [RFC]: CONFIG_UNSUPPORTED Stephen Wille Padnos
2004-07-22 1:08 ` [PATCH] delete devfs Grzegorz Jaśkiewicz
2004-07-22 1:48 ` Mike Snitzer
2004-07-21 22:02 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-21 22:07 ` Greg KH
2004-07-21 22:14 ` David Weinehall
2004-07-21 22:31 ` Brian Gerst
2004-07-21 23:11 ` New dev model (was [PATCH] delete devfs) Jonathan Corbet
2004-07-21 23:52 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-22 9:55 ` Andrew Morton
2004-07-22 7:04 ` Greg KH
2004-07-22 10:19 ` Andrew Morton
2004-07-22 12:55 ` Josh Boyer
2004-07-22 11:32 ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2004-07-22 19:12 ` Greg KH
2004-07-22 19:33 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-22 22:28 ` Paul Jackson [this message]
2004-07-22 23:25 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-23 2:22 ` Tim Wright
2004-07-23 6:31 ` Ville Herva
2004-07-23 21:04 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-07-23 21:08 ` Ville Herva
2004-07-25 11:59 ` Jan Knutar
2004-07-25 18:53 ` Jesper Juhl
2004-07-23 8:16 ` szonyi calin
2004-07-23 12:21 ` Jonathan Corbet
2004-07-23 19:59 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-24 14:24 ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-07-23 14:54 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-07-23 15:50 ` szonyi calin
2004-07-27 22:18 ` Bill Davidsen
2004-07-28 21:25 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-08-02 18:48 ` Bill Davidsen
2004-08-03 22:07 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-07-24 16:21 ` Ragnar Hojland Espinosa
2004-07-27 22:12 ` Bill Davidsen
2004-07-28 7:24 ` Paul Jackson
2004-07-22 23:01 ` Andrew Morton
2004-07-22 20:18 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-22 20:28 ` Kevin Fox
2004-07-23 20:09 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-22 21:01 ` Martin Schlemmer
2004-07-23 0:39 ` Jason Cooper
2004-07-23 20:57 ` Timothy Miller
2004-07-25 13:30 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-26 1:38 ` Ben Hoskings
2004-07-26 2:12 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-07-28 6:25 ` Ben Hoskings
2004-07-28 21:23 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-08-04 21:53 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-07-28 21:22 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-07-29 12:25 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-22 1:33 ` [PATCH] delete devfs Mike Snitzer
2004-07-21 23:26 ` R. J. Wysocki
2004-07-21 22:11 ` Francois Romieu
2004-07-21 22:40 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-07-21 23:15 ` Francois Romieu
2004-07-22 8:23 ` sam
2004-07-22 10:24 ` Gene Heskett
2004-07-22 10:58 ` Nick Piggin
2004-07-22 21:06 ` sam
2004-07-23 0:21 ` Gene Heskett
2004-07-22 22:19 ` Paul Jakma
2004-07-22 19:22 ` Martin Schlemmer
2004-07-22 17:56 ` Deepak Saxena
2004-07-21 14:52 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-07-21 14:41 ` Matthew Garrett
2004-07-21 18:25 ` Greg KH
2004-07-21 19:55 ` Matthew Garrett
2004-07-21 19:34 ` Chris Wedgwood
2004-07-21 21:13 ` Ben Collins
2004-07-21 22:20 ` Wichert Akkerman
2004-07-22 19:44 ` Martin Schlemmer
2004-07-21 15:49 ` Kasper Sandberg
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-07-22 7:45 New dev model (was [PATCH] delete devfs) Svetoslav Slavtchev
2004-07-22 10:40 ` Han Boetes
2004-07-22 13:17 Svetoslav Slavtchev
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