RE: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

RE: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Walker, Bruce J]

Kevin,
   Got out of bed on the wrong side?  Such anger.  First, the
clusterwide device capability is a very small part of OpenSSI so your
comment "put the entire clustering layer on top of it" is COMPLETELY
wrong - you clearly are commenting about something you know nothing
about.  In the 2.4 implementation, providing this one capability by
leveraging devfs was quite economic, efficient and has been very stable.
I'm not sure who you mean by "that's what WE want".  If you mean the
current worldwide users of OpenSSI on 2.4, they are a very happy group
with a kick-ass clustering capability.

About one thing you are correct.  We are going to have to have a way to
lookup and name remote devices in 2.6.  I believe the remote file-op
mechanism we are using in 2.4 will adapt easily.

Bruce Walker
Architect and project manager - OpenSSI project



> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-cluster-bounces@redhat.com 
> [mailto:linux-cluster-bounces@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Kevin 
> P. Fleming
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 7:41 AM
> To: Linux Kernel Mailing List
> Cc: linux-cluster@redhat.com; 
> opengfs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net; 
> opengfs-users@lists.sourceforge.net; 
> opendlm-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!
> 
> 
> Aneesh Kumar K.V wrote:
> 
> > 5. Devices
> >   * there is a clusterwide device model via the devfs code
> 
> Yeah, that's we want, take buggy, unreliable, 
> soon-to-be-removed-from-mainline code and put an entire 
> clustering layer 
> on top of it. Too bad someone is going to need to completely 
> reimplement 
> this "clusterwide device model".
> 
> --
> Linux-cluster mailing list
> Linux-cluster@redhat.com
> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-cluster
> 

Re: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Daniel Phillips]

On Saturday 31 July 2004 12:00, Walker, Bruce J wrote:
> In the 2.4 implementation, providing this one capability by
> leveraging devfs was quite economic, efficient and has been very stable.

I wonder if device-mapper (slightly hacked) wouldn't be a better approach for 
2.6+.

Regards,

Daniel

Re: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Kevin P. Fleming]

Daniel Phillips wrote:

> On Saturday 31 July 2004 12:00, Walker, Bruce J wrote:
> 
>>In the 2.4 implementation, providing this one capability by
>>leveraging devfs was quite economic, efficient and has been very stable.
> 
> 
> I wonder if device-mapper (slightly hacked) wouldn't be a better approach for 
> 2.6+.

It appeared from the original posting that their "cluster-wide devfs" 
actually supported all types of device nodes, not just block devices. I 
don't know whether accessing a character device on another node would 
ever be useful, but certainly using device-mapper wouldn't help for that 
case.

Re: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Daniel Phillips]

On Sunday 01 August 2004 13:32, Kevin P. Fleming wrote:
> Daniel Phillips wrote:
> > On Saturday 31 July 2004 12:00, Walker, Bruce J wrote:
> >>In the 2.4 implementation, providing this one capability by
> >>leveraging devfs was quite economic, efficient and has been very stable.
> >
> > I wonder if device-mapper (slightly hacked) wouldn't be a better approach
> > for 2.6+.
>
> It appeared from the original posting that their "cluster-wide devfs"
> actually supported all types of device nodes, not just block devices. I
> don't know whether accessing a character device on another node would
> ever be useful, but certainly using device-mapper wouldn't help for that
> case.

Unless device-mapper learned how to deal with char devices...

Just a thought.

Regards,

Daniel

Re: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Ian Kent]

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Kevin P. Fleming wrote:

> Daniel Phillips wrote:
> 
> > On Saturday 31 July 2004 12:00, Walker, Bruce J wrote:
> > 
> >>In the 2.4 implementation, providing this one capability by
> >>leveraging devfs was quite economic, efficient and has been very stable.
> > 
> > 
> > I wonder if device-mapper (slightly hacked) wouldn't be a better approach for 
> > 2.6+.
> 
> It appeared from the original posting that their "cluster-wide devfs" 
> actually supported all types of device nodes, not just block devices. I 
> don't know whether accessing a character device on another node would 
> ever be useful, but certainly using device-mapper wouldn't help for that 
> case.

Does the reduced function 2.6 devfs still have what's needed?
If it does then you should have a fair amount of breathing space.

Re: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> >I wonder if device-mapper (slightly hacked) wouldn't be a better 
> >approach for 2.6+.
> 
> It appeared from the original posting that their "cluster-wide devfs" 
> actually supported all types of device nodes, not just block devices. 
> I don't know whether accessing a character device on another node 
> would ever be useful, but certainly using device-mapper wouldn't help 
> for that case.

Remote character devices seem extremely usefull to me...

mpg456 --device /dev/kitchen/dsp

cat /dev/roof/dsp > /dev/laptop/dsp

cat picture-to-scare-pigeons.raw > /dev/roof/fb0

X --device=/dev/livingroom/fb0

.... Okay, it will probably take a while until SSI cluster is the
right tool to network your home :-).

				Pavel
-- 
64 bytes from 195.113.31.123: icmp_seq=28 ttl=51 time=448769.1 ms         

Re: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Jeff Macdonald]

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:26:02 +0200, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz> wrote:
<snip>

> Remote character devices seem extremely usefull to me...
> 
> mpg456 --device /dev/kitchen/dsp
> 
> cat /dev/roof/dsp > /dev/laptop/dsp
> 
> cat picture-to-scare-pigeons.raw > /dev/roof/fb0
> 
> X --device=/dev/livingroom/fb0
> 
> ..... Okay, it will probably take a while until SSI cluster is the
> right tool to network your home :-).

Isn't that what Inferno is suppose to be able to do?

-- 
Jeff Macdonald
Ayer, MA

Re: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Andi Kleen]

"Walker, Bruce J" <bruce.walker@hp.com> writes:
> leveraging devfs was quite economic, efficient and has been very stable.
> I'm not sure who you mean by "that's what WE want".  If you mean the
> current worldwide users of OpenSSI on 2.4, they are a very happy group
> with a kick-ass clustering capability.

[...]

Do you have plans to contribute any pieces of it to the main kernel? 

-Andi

Re: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Lars Marowsky-Bree]

On 2004-07-31T18:54:53,
   Andi Kleen <ak@muc.de> said:

> Do you have plans to contribute any pieces of it to the main kernel? 

I guess there's a definite plan to have at least the OpenCI as an
alternative backend for the membership, locking etc subsystem which
seems to be taking shape at RHAT right now, at least that's what I
understood last week.


Sincerely,
    Lars Marowsky-Brée <lmb@suse.de>

-- 
High Availability & Clustering	    \ ever tried. ever failed. no matter.
SUSE Labs, Research and Development | try again. fail again. fail better.
SUSE LINUX AG - A Novell company    \ 	-- Samuel Beckett

RE: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Walker, Bruce J]

Yes, we would very much like to contribute OpenSSI to the main kernel.
However, we aren't quite ready to do that.  For the last couple of years
we have getting the functionality and stability on the 2.4 base.  We are
now ready to first get it working on 2.6 and then clean up the code for
submission either to a 2.6 base or a 2.7 base.

Bruce walker


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andi Kleen [mailto:ak@muc.de] 
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:55 AM
> To: Walker, Bruce J
> Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!
> 
> 
> "Walker, Bruce J" <bruce.walker@hp.com> writes:
> > leveraging devfs was quite economic, efficient and has been 
> very stable.
> > I'm not sure who you mean by "that's what WE want".  If you mean the
> > current worldwide users of OpenSSI on 2.4, they are a very 
> happy group
> > with a kick-ass clustering capability.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Do you have plans to contribute any pieces of it to the main kernel? 
> 
> -Andi
> 
> 

RE: [Linux-cluster] Re: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSI 1.0.0 released!!

[Walker, Bruce J]

When processes can freely and transparently move around the cluster (at
exec time, fork time or during any system call), being able to
transparently access your controlling tty is pretty handy.  In 2.4 we
stack our CFS  on top of each node's devfs to give us naming of and
access to all devices on all nodes.  TBD on how will do this in 2.6.

Bruce


> > 
> > I wonder if device-mapper (slightly hacked) wouldn't be a 
> better approach for 
> > 2.6+.
> 
> It appeared from the original posting that their "cluster-wide devfs" 
> actually supported all types of device nodes, not just block 
> devices. I 
> don't know whether accessing a character device on another node would 
> ever be useful, but certainly using device-mapper wouldn't 
> help for that 
> case.
>