From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S268026AbUH2PDN (ORCPT ); Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:03:13 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S268004AbUH2PDN (ORCPT ); Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:03:13 -0400 Received: from alias.nmd.msu.ru ([193.232.127.67]:32291 "EHLO alias.nmd.msu.ru") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S268021AbUH2PCh (ORCPT ); Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:02:37 -0400 Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:02:31 +0400 From: Alexander Lyamin To: Paul Jackson Cc: Hans Reiser , riel@redhat.com, ninja@slaphack.com, torvalds@osdl.org, diegocg@teleline.es, jamie@shareable.org, christophe@saout.de, vda@port.imtp.ilyichevsk.odessa.ua, christer@weinigel.se, spam@tnonline.net, akpm@osdl.org, wichert@wiggy.net, jra@samba.org, hch@lst.de, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, flx@namesys.com, reiserfs-list@namesys.com Subject: Re: silent semantic changes with reiser4 Message-ID: <20040829150231.GE9471@alias> Reply-To: flx@msu.ru Mail-Followup-To: flx@msu.ru, Paul Jackson , Hans Reiser , riel@redhat.com, ninja@slaphack.com, torvalds@osdl.org, diegocg@teleline.es, jamie@shareable.org, christophe@saout.de, vda@port.imtp.ilyichevsk.odessa.ua, christer@weinigel.se, spam@tnonline.net, akpm@osdl.org, wichert@wiggy.net, jra@samba.org, hch@lst.de, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, flx@namesys.com, reiserfs-list@namesys.com References: <412F7D63.4000109@namesys.com> <20040827230857.69340aec.pj@sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040827230857.69340aec.pj@sgi.com> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.5-7.104-smp X-Fnord: +++ath X-WebTV-Stationery: Standard; BGColor=black; TextColor=black X-Message-Flag: Message text blocked: ADULT LANGUAGE/SITUATIONS User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 11:08:57PM -0700, Paul Jackson wrote: > Hans wrote: > > We create filename/pseudos/backup, and that tells the archiver what to > > do..... > > Instead of exposing the old semantics under a new interface, why not > expose the new semantics under a new interface. yeah. that could work. > There exist plenty of programs that know the old Unix semantics. There > don't exist many working programs that use the new semantics that you're > adding. > > I raise again the example of how Windows adapted to long filenames. Old > DOS and FAT programs, including my Unix backups of today, see a 8.3 name > space. Only code that knows the new magic sees the long names. > > If given the choice of breaking much old, existing stuff, or some new, > mostly not yet existing stuff, does not it make more sense to break what > mostly doesn't exist yet? > > One possible way to do this, of no doubt many: > > * Stealing a corner of the existing filename space for > some magic names with the new semantics. > > * A new option on open(2), hence opendir(3), that lights up > these magic names. > > * Doing any of the classic pathname calls with such a > new magic name exposes the new semantics - such calls > as: > access execve mkdir mknod mount readlink > rename rmdir stat truncate unlink > > This means essentially constructing a map between old and new, > such that changes made in either view are sane and visible > from the other view. It would be intresting to hear comments from Hans Reiser on proposals stated above... -- "the liberation loophole will make it clear.." lex lyamin