[PATCH 0/8] dlm: overview

[PATCH 0/8] dlm: overview

[David Teigland]

These are the distributed lock manager (dlm) patches against 2.6.12-rc4
that we'd like to see added to the kernel.  We've made changes based on
the suggestions that were sent, and are happy to get more, of course.

The original overview
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=111444188703106&w=2

For those interested in performance, there is some information here
http://sources.redhat.com/cluster/dlm/

Dave

Re: [PATCH 0/8] dlm: overview

[Andrew Morton]

David Teigland <teigland@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>  These are the distributed lock manager (dlm) patches against 2.6.12-rc4
>  that we'd like to see added to the kernel.

Squawk.

Not only do I not know whether this stuff should be merged: I don't even
know how to find that out.  Unless I'm prepared to become a full-on
cluster/dlm person, which isn't looking likely.

The usual fallback is to identify all the stakeholders and get them to say
"yes Andrew, this code is cool and we can use it", but I don't think the
clustering teams have sufficent act-togetherness to be able to do that.

Am I correct in believing that this DLM is designed to be used by multiple
clustering products?  If so, which ones, and how far along are they?

Looking at Ted's latest Kernel Summit agenda I see

 Clustering

 	We need to make progress on the kernel integration of things
 	like message passing, membership, DLM etc.

 	We seem to have at least two comparable kernel-side offerings
 	(OpenSSI and RHAT's), as well as a need to hash out how user-space
 	plays into this.

 	(There is now a plan for a Clustering Summit prior to KS - need
 	to validate if this will be useful, still)

So right now I'm inclined to duck any decision making and see what happens
in July.  Does that sounds sane?  Is that Clustering Summit going to happen?

In the meanwhile I can pop this code into -mm so it gets a bit more
compile testing, review and exposure, but that wouldn't signify anything
further.

Re: [PATCH 0/8] dlm: overview

[David Teigland]

On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 12:11:33AM -0700, Andrew Morton wrote:

> The usual fallback is to identify all the stakeholders and get them to say
> "yes Andrew, this code is cool and we can use it", but I don't think the
> clustering teams have sufficent act-togetherness to be able to do that.
> 
> Am I correct in believing that this DLM is designed to be used by multiple
> clustering products?  If so, which ones, and how far along are they?

Correct.  Red Hat has multiple clustering products that do and will use
this.  GFS and CLVM are two notable ones that do now.  GFS kernel patches
that use this will be sent in the near future; CLVM uses the dlm from user
space.

Here are my impressions of where other clustering groups are at:

OpenSSI: this project is interested in integrating an existing dlm into
their system.  They don't have any effort under way to develop a dlm
themselves.  They are also interested in using gfs which is indirectly an
interest in the dlm.

Linux-HA: seem to be in a similar situation as OpenSSI

Lustre: this project includes a locking system called "dlm".  The api is
similar, but the implementation is not distributed in the style of a
traditional dlm; what they have is largely Lustre-specific [1].

OCFS2: this project includes a dlm intended for OCFS2, but there have been
some steps to make it more generic.  I believe their goal is still to
develop their dlm primarily for ocfs2's needs, not to develop an entirely
general purpose dlm such as this one.  So again, what's there is limited
and largely OCFS2-specific [1].

It would be very good to hear from any others who are interested in using
a dlm, too.

[1] Application-specific lock managers such as Lustre's and OCFS2's can be
good ideas, and I'm not criticising them.  It allows you to make
specializations and simplifications to suit your particular needs.  So,
while I'm sure it's possible for them to use this general-purpose dlm,
some may still want to do their own specialized thing.  We'll try to add
features and options to the general-purpose dlm to meet specialized needs,
but there's a limit to that.


> Looking at Ted's latest Kernel Summit agenda I see
> 
>  Clustering
> 
>  	We need to make progress on the kernel integration of things
>  	like message passing, membership, DLM etc.
> 
>  	We seem to have at least two comparable kernel-side offerings
>  	(OpenSSI and RHAT's), as well as a need to hash out how user-space
>  	plays into this.
> 
>  	(There is now a plan for a Clustering Summit prior to KS - need
>  	to validate if this will be useful, still)
> 
> So right now I'm inclined to duck any decision making and see what happens
> in July.  Does that sounds sane?  Is that Clustering Summit going to happen?

To some extent I'm sure the different clustering meetings will happen,
although I won't be at any of them.  I'm forging ahead trying to work
things out rather than waiting.  (Frankly, I don't think waiting for a
cluster summit will matter much.)

It's worth noting that most of the clustering discussions are now about
user space stuff.  Since the dlm is agnostic about what's in user space,
the dlm discussion and other clustering topics are largely independent.


> In the meanwhile I can pop this code into -mm so it gets a bit more
> compile testing, review and exposure, but that wouldn't signify anything
> further.

Sure, more feedback is what we're after.

Dave

Re: [PATCH 0/8] dlm: overview

[Andi Kleen]

Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org> writes:
>
> Squawk.
>
> Not only do I not know whether this stuff should be merged: I don't even
> know how to find that out.  Unless I'm prepared to become a full-on
> cluster/dlm person, which isn't looking likely.
>
> The usual fallback is to identify all the stakeholders and get them to say
> "yes Andrew, this code is cool and we can use it", but I don't think the
> clustering teams have sufficent act-togetherness to be able to do that.

My impression is that it is unlikely everybody will agree on a single
cluster setup anyways, so it might be best to use a similar strategy
as with file systems ("multiple implementations - standard API to the
outside world")

This would mean the DLM could be merged if the other cluster people
agree that the interface it presents to the outside world is good
for them too. Is it? Perhaps these interfaces should be discussed
first.

-Andi

Re: [PATCH 0/8] dlm: overview

[Lars Roland]

On 5/17/05, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org> wrote:
> The usual fallback is to identify all the stakeholders and get them to say
> "yes Andrew, this code is cool and we can use it", but I don't think the
> clustering teams have sufficent act-togetherness to be able to do that.

It is highly unlikely that this will ever happen because of the
different nature of these projects. That said getting a kernel system
for dlm and message passing should be doable given the wide variety
off uses they have.

Re: [PATCH 0/8] dlm: overview

[Daniel Phillips]

Hi Andrew,

On Tuesday 17 May 2005 03:11, you wrote:
>   (There is now a plan for a Clustering Summit prior to KS - need
>   to validate if this will be useful, still)

The public announcement, with venue and travel details will be tomorrow.  This 
is a technical workshop that will take place on June 20 and 21st in Walldorf 
Germany, near Heidelberg and south of Frankfurt.   The goal is to either 
validate, reject, modify, or combine the kernel interfaces that Red Hat has 
proposed, and that other groups may propose in the next few weeks.  We will 
only be looking at code that actually exists.

For those who cannot physically attend, we will do our utmost to provide a 
two-way audio connection, hopefully without toll charges.

This Second Annual Cluster Summit (sorry if it sounds presumptuous) is 
sponsored by Red Hat, Hewlett-Packard, Fujitsu-Siemens, Dell, and Oracle.  My 
apologies in advance for leaving only four weeks leadtime for the public 
announcement.

Regards,

Daniel