SubmittingPatches typo

SubmittingPatches typo

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

I'm not 100% sure with my english, but this seems wrong...

Signed-off-by: Pavel Machek <pavel@suse.cz>

diff --git a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches
index c2c85bc..8fd6d4e 100644
--- a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches
+++ b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches
@@ -490,7 +490,7 @@ NO!!!! No more huge patch bombs to linux
 Kernel Documentation/CodingStyle
   <http://sosdg.org/~coywolf/lxr/source/Documentation/CodingStyle>
 
-Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
+Linus Torvalds' mail on the canonical patch format:
   <http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/4/7/183>
 --
 Last updated on 17 Nov 2005.

-- 
Picture of sleeping (Linux) penguin wanted...

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Jan Engelhardt]

>Hi!
>
>I'm not 100% sure with my english, but this seems wrong...
>
>Signed-off-by: Pavel Machek <pavel@suse.cz>
> 
>-Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
>+Linus Torvalds' mail on the canonical patch format:

Neither. (It would have been correct in German, though.)
Correct is - in English:
	Linus Torvalds's mail on the canonical patch format:



Jan Engelhardt
-- 
| Software Engineer and Linux/Unix Network Administrator

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Matheus Izvekov]

On 3/20/06, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de> wrote:
> >Hi!
> >
> >I'm not 100% sure with my english, but this seems wrong...
> >
> >Signed-off-by: Pavel Machek <pavel@suse.cz>
> >
> >-Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
> >+Linus Torvalds' mail on the canonical patch format:
>
> Neither. (It would have been correct in German, though.)
> Correct is - in English:
>         Linus Torvalds's mail on the canonical patch format:
>

I agree with Pavel. i think its a rule in english that when the word
ends with s, you dont repeat another s after the '

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Chris Boot]

Matheus Izvekov wrote:
> On 3/20/06, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I'm not 100% sure with my english, but this seems wrong...
>>>
>>> Signed-off-by: Pavel Machek <pavel@suse.cz>
>>>
>>> -Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
>>> +Linus Torvalds' mail on the canonical patch format:
>> Neither. (It would have been correct in German, though.)
>> Correct is - in English:
>>         Linus Torvalds's mail on the canonical patch format:
>>
> 
> I agree with Pavel. i think its a rule in english that when the word
> ends with s, you dont repeat another s after the '

When a word ends with an 's' *because it is plural* (i.e. the s denotes 
plurality) then you omit the second 's'. If the word ends with 's' in 
singular form you do the whole whack: ..s's.

I can't quote a source for this, but it's something I've known for years.

HTH,
Chris

-- 
Chris Boot
bootc@bootc.net
http://www.bootc.net/

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Pavel Machek]

On Po 20-03-06 20:53:36, Chris Boot wrote:
> Matheus Izvekov wrote:
> >On 3/20/06, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de> wrote:
> >>>Hi!
> >>>
> >>>I'm not 100% sure with my english, but this seems wrong...
> >>>
> >>>Signed-off-by: Pavel Machek <pavel@suse.cz>
> >>>
> >>>-Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
> >>>+Linus Torvalds' mail on the canonical patch format:
> >>Neither. (It would have been correct in German, though.)
> >>Correct is - in English:
> >>        Linus Torvalds's mail on the canonical patch format:
> >>
> >
> >I agree with Pavel. i think its a rule in english that when the word
> >ends with s, you dont repeat another s after the '
> 
> When a word ends with an 's' *because it is plural* (i.e. the s denotes 
> plurality) then you omit the second 's'. If the word ends with 's' in 
> singular form you do the whole whack: ..s's.
> 
> I can't quote a source for this, but it's something I've known for years.

Ok, if you are native speaker, I trust you. Could you send a patch to
akpm?
									Pavel
-- 
Picture of sleeping (Linux) penguin wanted...

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Jan Engelhardt]

>> > > 
>> > > -Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
>> > > +Linus Torvalds' mail on the canonical patch format:
>> > Neither. (It would have been correct in German, though.)
>> > Correct is - in English:
>> > Linus Torvalds's mail on the canonical patch format:
>> 
>> I agree with Pavel. i think its a rule in english that when the word
>> ends with s, you dont repeat another s after the '
>
> When a word ends with an 's' *because it is plural* (i.e. the s denotes
> plurality) then you omit the second 's'. If the word ends with 's' in singular
> form you do the whole whack: ..s's.
>
> I can't quote a source for this, but it's something I've known for years.
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive


Jan Engelhardt
-- 

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Matheus Izvekov]

>> When a word ends with an 's' *because it is plural* (i.e. the s denotes
>> plurality) then you omit the second 's'. If the word ends with 's'
in singular
>> form you do the whole whack: ..s's.
>>
>> I can't quote a source for this, but it's something I've known for years.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive
>

here is an excerpt from that link:

Genitive of origin; subjective genitive

    * Beethoven's music
    * Fred Astaire's dancing
    * Confucius' teaching

Confucius is a name ending with s jus like Torvalds is, its not plural
form of anything.

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Jan Engelhardt]

>>> > > -Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
>>> > > +Linus Torvalds' mail on the canonical patch format:
>>> > Neither. (It would have been correct in German, though.)
>>> > Correct is - in English:
>>> > Linus Torvalds's mail on the canonical patch format:
>>> 
>>> I agree with Pavel. i think its a rule in english that when the word
>>> ends with s, you dont repeat another s after the '
>>
>> When a word ends with an 's' *because it is plural* (i.e. the s denotes
>> plurality) then you omit the second 's'. If the word ends with 's' in singular
>> form you do the whole whack: ..s's.
>>
>> I can't quote a source for this, but it's something I've known for years.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive
>

Anyway, I have a more authoritative source[1], which says

	Singular
		Kate's book
		Father's pipe
		Charles's records
		Alice's cassettes
	Plural
		my parents' books
		the boys' room
		the children's toys
		men's clothes

	<Warning sign>
		My friend's bike is new.
		My friends' bikes are over there.

	<Translated> With singular, an apostrophe and an s is added
	to the noun. As for plural forms with a trailing -s, only an 
	apostrophe is added. Other plural forms get an apostrophe and an s 
	(like with singular).

	Family names ending in -s may either have apostrophe + S or just
	an apostrophe appended.

		Mrs Jones's/Jones' hats
		The Bates's/Bates' house

So in our Torvalds case, we have the option.


[1] Ungerer/Pasch/Lampater/Hellyer-Jones
    "Learning English, Grundgrammatik"  isbn 3-12-511510-8
    distributed by Klett


Jan Engelhardt
-- 
| Software Engineer and Linux/Unix Network Administrator

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Nick Warne]

Believe me, English Grammar is harder than trying to understand kernel code.

I was taught that 'ownership' and 'owner' decide, depending on the tense.

Fred's code (it's his - 'Fred has ['s] code')). - Here also "it's" is
short for "it is" (sucking eggs).

Freds' code.  You are talking third party about Freds' (or should that
be Fred's?) code that he owns.

Names that end in 's' may not be plural... the Smiths family?  Or the
Smiths' Family?  What happens if you are talking about 10
Smiths'/Smith's families?  Smiths Families?

So, I think:

Torvald's code == Torvalds has code == Torvald's ['s == has]

Reference Torvalds' code = Torvalds[es]' code [owner]

This debate has been on this board been a few times... and with all
the English masters in there, it is still a little bit unresolved.

http://www.b2g2.com/boards/board.cgi?user=dharrison

Stick to coding kernels guys, it's easier.

The fix?

+Here is the mail Linus Torvalds sent on the canonical patch format:

Nick

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Chris Boot]

Nick Warne wrote:
> Believe me, English Grammar is harder than trying to understand kernel code..
> 
> I was taught that 'ownership' and 'owner' decide, depending on the tense.
> 
> Fred's code (it's his - 'Fred has ['s] code')). - Here also "it's" is
> short for "it is" (sucking eggs).
> 
> Freds' code.  You are talking third party about Freds' (or should that
> be Fred's?) code that he owns.
> 
> Names that end in 's' may not be plural... the Smiths family?  Or the
> Smiths' Family?  What happens if you are talking about 10
> Smiths'/Smith's families?  Smiths Families?
> 
> So, I think:
> 
> Torvald's code == Torvalds has code == Torvald's ['s == has]
> 
> Reference Torvalds' code = Torvalds[es]' code [owner]
> 
> This debate has been on this board been a few times... and with all
> the English masters in there, it is still a little bit unresolved.
> 
> http://www.b2g2.com/boards/board.cgi?user=dharrison

I think we'll all have to agree to disagree about this and nip it in the 
bud before everything gets out of hand!

> Stick to coding kernels guys, it's easier.

Agreed.

> The fix?
> 
> +Here is the mail Linus Torvalds sent on the canonical patch format:

Ah, so simple, so nice. This one gets my vote.

> Nick

Chris

-- 
Chris Boot
bootc@bootc.net
http://www.bootc.net/

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[J. Bruce Fields]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 05:47:44PM -0300, Matheus Izvekov wrote:
> On 3/20/06, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de> wrote:
> > >Hi!
> > >
> > >I'm not 100% sure with my english, but this seems wrong...
> > >
> > >Signed-off-by: Pavel Machek <pavel@suse.cz>
> > >
> > >-Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
> > >+Linus Torvalds' mail on the canonical patch format:
> >
> > Neither. (It would have been correct in German, though.)
> > Correct is - in English:
> >         Linus Torvalds's mail on the canonical patch format:
> >
> 
> I agree with Pavel. i think its a rule in english that when the word
> ends with s, you dont repeat another s after the '

Nope.  It's actually one of the amusing places where there *is* no rule.
Plurals that end in s always get just the apostrophe.  But for singular
nouns that end in s, while I tend to think of "'s" as the default, some
people like to drop the final s if the result ("Sophocles's") would
otherwise sound awkward spoken aloud.

If you really can't stand the ambiguity, go for "Mail from Linus
Torvalds on the canonical patch format:".

--b.

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Alan Cox]

> Nope.  It's actually one of the amusing places where there *is* no rule.
> Plurals that end in s always get just the apostrophe.  But for singular
> nouns that end in s, while I tend to think of "'s" as the default, some
> people like to drop the final s if the result ("Sophocles's") would
> otherwise sound awkward spoken aloud.

The definitive references have this to say

US English: Strunk and White says it should be "Torvalds's" and that the
apostrophe alone is used only for ancient particularly biblical names
ending in -es/is  (eg Moses' laws)

UK English: The Oxford Guide To Style says

"Use 's after non-classical or non-classicizing personal names ending
with an s or z sound). It also says that Torvalds' would be acceptable.


So both agree that

	Torvalds's

is correct and that would appear to be the right choice to keep everyone
both sides of the pond happy.

Jan: Care to submit an updated patch as the original is indeed wrong ?

Alan

Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches typo

[Jan Engelhardt]

>Jan: Care to submit an updated patch as the original is indeed wrong ?
>
Here you go. On that occassion, I fixed one more of the Torvalds-related 
Genetives.

Signed-off-by: Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@gmx.de>

diff --fast -Ndpru linux-2.6.16~/Documentation/DocBook/kernel-locking.tmpl linux-2.6.16-typofix/Documentation/DocBook/kernel-locking.tmpl
--- linux-2.6.16~/Documentation/DocBook/kernel-locking.tmpl	2006-03-20 06:53:29.000000000 +0100
+++ linux-2.6.16-typofix/Documentation/DocBook/kernel-locking.tmpl	2006-03-21 18:38:37.227544000 +0100
@@ -1916,7 +1916,7 @@ machines due to caching.
     <listitem>
      <para>
        <filename>Documentation/spinlocks.txt</filename>: 
-       Linus Torvalds' spinlocking tutorial in the kernel sources.
+       Linus Torvalds's spinlocking tutorial in the kernel sources.
      </para>
     </listitem>
 
diff --fast -Ndpru linux-2.6.16~/Documentation/SubmittingPatches linux-2.6.16-typofix/Documentation/SubmittingPatches
--- linux-2.6.16~/Documentation/SubmittingPatches	2006-03-20 06:53:29.000000000 +0100
+++ linux-2.6.16-typofix/Documentation/SubmittingPatches	2006-03-21 18:39:04.627544000 +0100
@@ -490,7 +490,7 @@ NO!!!! No more huge patch bombs to linux
 Kernel Documentation/CodingStyle
   <http://sosdg.org/~coywolf/lxr/source/Documentation/CodingStyle>
 
-Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
+Linus Torvalds's mail on the canonical patch format:
   <http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/4/7/183>
 --
 Last updated on 17 Nov 2005.
#<eof>


Jan Engelhardt
-- 
| Software Engineer and Linux/Unix Network Administrator

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[祁勇]

Alan Cox wrote:

>>Nope.  It's actually one of the amusing places where there *is* no rule.
>>Plurals that end in s always get just the apostrophe.  But for singular
>>nouns that end in s, while I tend to think of "'s" as the default, some
>>people like to drop the final s if the result ("Sophocles's") would
>>otherwise sound awkward spoken aloud.
>>    
>>
>
>The definitive references have this to say
>
>US English: Strunk and White says it should be "Torvalds's" and that the
>apostrophe alone is used only for ancient particularly biblical names
>ending in -es/is  (eg Moses' laws)
>  
>

akpm is already saying "Linus's" in his *mm-commits*:

This patch was probably dropped from -mm because
it has already been merged into a subsystem tree
or into Linus's tree


(btw, when Americans made mistakes, their English became American English.)


>UK English: The Oxford Guide To Style says
>
>"Use 's after non-classical or non-classicizing personal names ending
>with an s or z sound). It also says that Torvalds' would be acceptable.
>
>
>So both agree that
>
>	Torvalds's
>
>is correct and that would appear to be the right choice to keep everyone
>both sides of the pond happy.
>
>Jan: Care to submit an updated patch as the original is indeed wrong ?
>
>Alan
>
>-
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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>Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>
>
>  
>

Re: SubmittingPatches typo

[Nigel Cunningham]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1232 bytes --]

Hi.

On Monday 20 March 2006 22:50, Pavel Machek wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm not 100% sure with my english, but this seems wrong...
>
> Signed-off-by: Pavel Machek <pavel@suse.cz>
>
> diff --git a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches
> b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches index c2c85bc..8fd6d4e 100644
> --- a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches
> +++ b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches
> @@ -490,7 +490,7 @@ NO!!!! No more huge patch bombs to linux
>  Kernel Documentation/CodingStyle
>    <http://sosdg.org/~coywolf/lxr/source/Documentation/CodingStyle>
>
> -Linus Torvald's mail on the canonical patch format:
> +Linus Torvalds' mail on the canonical patch format:
>    <http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/4/7/183>
>  --
>  Last updated on 17 Nov 2005.

I read all the other messages, and still felt I needed to reply :).

This patch is correct. If a name ends in an s, the possessive form simply gets 
an apostrophe.

Plurals are irrelevant to the discussion, but I'll answer another part of the 
thread too. If you wanted to say that something belonged to Linus and his 
family, you'd still do Torvalds', and get the fact that Torvalds was in the 
plural from other words in the context (if possible).

Regards,

Nigel

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