From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S932316AbWFCGio (ORCPT ); Sat, 3 Jun 2006 02:38:44 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S932573AbWFCGio (ORCPT ); Sat, 3 Jun 2006 02:38:44 -0400 Received: from smtp.enter.net ([216.193.128.24]:15114 "EHLO smtp.enter.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932316AbWFCGin (ORCPT ); Sat, 3 Jun 2006 02:38:43 -0400 From: "D. Hazelton" To: "Jon Smirl" Subject: Re: OpenGL-based framebuffer concepts Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 02:38:30 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.1 Cc: "Kyle Moffett" , "Dave Airlie" , "Ondrej Zajicek" , "Pavel Machek" , "Alan Cox" , "Manu Abraham" , "linux cbon" , "Helge Hafting" , Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, adaplas@gmail.com References: <20060519224056.37429.qmail@web26611.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200606030209.34928.dhazelton@enter.net> <9e4733910606022331u40f1fd5dq6428e37f30ccf702@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9e4733910606022331u40f1fd5dq6428e37f30ccf702@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200606030238.32720.dhazelton@enter.net> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Saturday 03 June 2006 06:31, Jon Smirl wrote: > On 6/2/06, D. Hazelton wrote: > > Actually, Jon, Dave is thinking like I am in that the DRI drivers needs > > to be loaded for use. Rather than forcing applications to include all > > that code the userspace daemon can be configured to load the DRI driver > > and provides the userspace interface to the system. Using a daemon for a > > simple task, like modesetting, is idiotic - but using the daemon to > > provide userspace with full access to acceleration (the Kernel drivers > > only provide the backend for the acceleration. The userspace side > > actually provides the code that manages it all) without needing to have > > to worry about loading and initializing the dri drivers provides a method > > for anything from a scripting language to a full compiled application > > easy access to the acceleration. > > You are confused about this. Nobody wants to change the way DRI and > DRM work, it would take years of effort to change it. These are shared > libraries, it doesn't matter how many people have them open, there is > only one copy in memory. Exactly. > Applications don't 'include' all of the DRI/DRM code they dynamically > link to the OpenGL shared object library which in turns loads the > correct DRI shared library. The correct DRM module should be loaded by > the kernel at boot. You can write a 10 line OpenGL program that will > make use of all of this, it is not hard to do. User space has always > had access to hardware acceleration from these libraries. Yes, but there are userspace *drivers* that have to be loaded for that code to work properly. By providing the daemon no program needs to worry about loading those drivers. > We have not been discussing DIrect Rendering vs indirect (AIGLX). It > will be up to the windowing system to chose which (or both) of those > model to use. The lower layers are designed not to force that choice > one way ot the other. > > Dave wants to load the existing X drivers into the daemon, not the DRI > libraries. Other than using them for mode setting there isn't much use > for them. I have asked him where he wants things like blanking, cmap, > cursor and he hasn't said yet. Those functions are tiny, ~100 lines of > code. Stuff like that would probably be best left to small userspace helpers, or potentially 1 userspace helper that figures out what to do based on what the name is that's given to the link. DRH