Re: VGER does gradual SPF activation (FAQ matter)

Nick Warne
2006-06-12T21:10:43Z

I have been following this closely, and without getting into the
discussion re SPF, I think one issue especially affecting LKML is the
traffic.

One (almost sure) fire way to stop the spam is to make a subscribed
ML. But people like myself cannot/have not the resource to take on
the 200+ mails a day (how the kernel devs manage it, I don't know?).

So I have subscribed via my gmail account to follow the mails, but
then at least I can reply from my 'real address' and keep the thread
intact (if you see what I mean).

So, why not make the list a subscribe only list to SEND, but give an
option to NOT receive any mail from the list unless CC'ed?

Nick

On 12/06/06, Horst von Brand <vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl> wrote:
> Bernd Petrovitsch <bernd@firmix.at> wrote:
> > On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 19:24 -0700, marty fouts wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > > It doesn't work.
>
> > It works if it is used correctly (as any tool in the world).
>
> Right.
>
> > The "problem" is that postmasters on the Net must do something
>
> It took /years/ until open relays weren't common anymore... and that is a
> /simple/ measure, on by default in newer upstream packages, no admin
> intervention required. DNS works badly, here in Chile a mayor ISP had a
> totally broken setup for many years.
>
> > (namely
> > 1) define if they want to allow others to detect forged emails claimed
> > to come from their domain
>
> They have /very/ little to gain by that, and setting it up correctly is a
> mayor hassle. It breaks people sending mail "from" the domain when they
> aren't there (this is rather common for people on the road), and has no
> real fix. I.e., it won't ever be done. Or it will be tried, some email from
> Big Cheese doesn't go through, and it will be axed.
>
> > and 2) - if yes to 1) - to get appropriate SPF
> > records into DNS)
>
> Many people have no (or very little) control over their DNS data. A spammer
> can then just claim it comes from one of the millions of SPF-less domains
> in the world (if they don't set up their own SPFied one...). Besides,
> discussions on the spamassassin lists show that SPFied email is a rather
> reliable indicator of spam as things stand today...
>
> > and people must either use a "good" mail relay (and
> > not just the one next door) or convince postmasters to change the SPF
> > records.
>
> Won't happen.
>
> > > It'll break standard-abiding email.
>
> > As you see, standards change.
>
> Yep. But SPF breaks email, not just changes the standard. For no gain at
> all.
>
> > > Do you really want that?
>
> > Yes. Especially gmail.com should do such a thing - there is such a lot
> > of - presumbly forged - @gmail.com mails in my mailboxes that
> > blacklisting the whole domain causes probably more good than bad (for
> > me, of course).
>
> There is spam that really comes from gmail...
> --
> Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org
> Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 654431
> Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 654239
> Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 797513
>
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