[RFC] e-mail clients

[RFC] e-mail clients

[Victor Hugo]

As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text only 
e-mail without
wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any suggestions 
about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
Thunderbird?? Telnet??


-Victor Hugo

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Jan Engelhardt]

>
> As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text only e-mail
> without
> wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any suggestions about
> which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??

pine does the job.

> Thunderbird?? Telnet??

Thunderbird is said to not by default, and that you need to set some 
option first.

Telnet is something very different.



Jan Engelhardt
-- 

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Michal Piotrowski]

On 08/09/06, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de> wrote:
> Telnet is something very different.

You can send patches using telnet

"Telnet - SMTP Commands (sending mail using telnet)"
http://www.yuki-onna.co.uk/email/smtp.html

But there are simpler ways to send patches.

> Jan Engelhardt

Regards,
Michal

-- 
Michal K. K. Piotrowski
LTG - Linux Testers Group
(http://www.stardust.webpages.pl/ltg/)

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Jan Engelhardt]

>> Telnet is something very different.

Even though all four geometric figures in IQ tests have something in comment
(they're triangular for example), they are different to a certain degree that
one falls apart. Any IQ test has some sort of that.
So, which one does not belong in the group?
( ) pine
( ) mutt
( ) Thunderbird
( ) telnet

That was my point.

> You can send patches using telnet

You can also send patches using netcat, you might even be able to use bash
itself! It is not very friendly though, esp. when it comes to attachments or
MIME encoding.



Jan Engelhardt
-- 

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Michal Piotrowski]

On 08/09/06, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de> wrote:
> you might even be able to use bash
> itself! It is not very friendly though, esp. when it comes to attachments or
> MIME encoding.

LOL :)

Bash is a very universal tool - something like EmacsOS.

>
>
>
> Jan Engelhardt
> --
>

Regards,
Michal

-- 
Michal K. K. Piotrowski
LTG - Linux Testers Group
(http://www.stardust.webpages.pl/ltg/)

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Jan Engelhardt]

>> you might even be able to use bash
>> itself! It is not very friendly though, esp. when it comes to attachments
>> or
>> MIME encoding.
>
> LOL :)
>
> Bash is a very universal tool - something like EmacsOS.

Except that it is not as bloated as emacs.

cat </dev/tcp/kernel.org/finger
echo -en "EHLO y\nMAIL FROM: a@b.com\nRCPT TO: d@e.com\n..."  \
	>/dev/tcp/mailer.localdomain/25


Jan Engelhardt
-- 

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Pavel Machek]

On Fri 08-09-06 10:17:04, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> 
> >> Telnet is something very different.
> 
> Even though all four geometric figures in IQ tests have something in comment
> (they're triangular for example), they are different to a certain degree that
> one falls apart. Any IQ test has some sort of that.
> So, which one does not belong in the group?
> ( ) pine
> ( ) mutt
> ( ) Thunderbird
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
thunderbird -- the only one that requires X :-).

> ( ) telnet
> 
> That was my point.

							Pavel
-- 
IQ 5 -- can detect light

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Jesper Juhl]

On 08/09/06, Victor Hugo <victor@vhugo.net> wrote:
>
>
> As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text only
> e-mail without
> wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any suggestions
> about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> Thunderbird?? Telnet??
>
I personally use both 'pine' and 'kmail' and they both work perfectly
for sending patches.

-- 
Jesper Juhl <jesper.juhl@gmail.com>
Don't top-post  http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please      http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Rafael J. Wysocki]

On Friday, 8 September 2006 10:24, Jesper Juhl wrote:
> On 08/09/06, Victor Hugo <victor@vhugo.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text only
> > e-mail without
> > wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any suggestions
> > about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> > Thunderbird?? Telnet??
> >
> I personally use both 'pine' and 'kmail' and they both work perfectly
> for sending patches.

Confirmed.

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Hans-Peter Jansen]

Am Freitag, 8. September 2006 10:24 schrieb Jesper Juhl:
> On 08/09/06, Victor Hugo <victor@vhugo.net> wrote:
> > As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text
> > only e-mail without
> > wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any
> > suggestions about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> > Thunderbird?? Telnet??
>
> I personally use both 'pine' and 'kmail' and they both work perfectly
> for sending patches.

With kmail, you have control over line breaks with Option -> Wrap lines, 
which is useful for e.g. pasted syslog data, but remember to enable it 
before writing the message, since you have to manually add line breaks 
for the entered text too.

Inlined patches should be added via Message -> Insert File to preserve 
line breaks and white space.

Pete

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 08 September 2006 08:54, Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:
>Am Freitag, 8. September 2006 10:24 schrieb Jesper Juhl:
>> On 08/09/06, Victor Hugo <victor@vhugo.net> wrote:
>> > As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text
>> > only e-mail without
>> > wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any
>> > suggestions about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
>> > Thunderbird?? Telnet??
>>
>> I personally use both 'pine' and 'kmail' and they both work perfectly
>> for sending patches.
>
>With kmail, you have control over line breaks with Option -> Wrap lines,
>which is useful for e.g. pasted syslog data, but remember to enable it
>before writing the message, since you have to manually add line breaks
>for the entered text too.
>
>Inlined patches should be added via Message -> Insert File to preserve
>line breaks and white space.
>
But be sure and turn word wrapping off before inserting the file, or 
pasting (usually bad I might add).  And my version of kmail wraps the 
whole document if the wrapping is turned back on, as it is now.  Which 
makes it rather frustrating.

>Pete
>-
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel"
> in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above
message by Gene Heskett are:
Copyright 2006 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Vadim Lobanov]

On Friday 08 September 2006 06:18, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 08 September 2006 08:54, Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:
> >Am Freitag, 8. September 2006 10:24 schrieb Jesper Juhl:
> >> I personally use both 'pine' and 'kmail' and they both work perfectly
> >> for sending patches.
> >
> >With kmail, you have control over line breaks with Option -> Wrap lines,
> >which is useful for e.g. pasted syslog data, but remember to enable it
> >before writing the message, since you have to manually add line breaks
> >for the entered text too.
> >
> >Inlined patches should be added via Message -> Insert File to preserve
> >line breaks and white space.
>
> But be sure and turn word wrapping off before inserting the file, or
> pasting (usually bad I might add).  And my version of kmail wraps the
> whole document if the wrapping is turned back on, as it is now.  Which
> makes it rather frustrating.

Strange. I leave my KMail to word-wrap always, in which case Message -> Insert 
File automatically turns off any and all text munging when it is inserting 
the chosen file. No need to toggle any switches here, either before or after 
inserting.

FWIW, KMail 1.9.1 shipped with openSUSE 10.1

-- Vadim Lobanov

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Ondrej Zary]

On Friday 08 September 2006 15:18, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 08 September 2006 08:54, Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:
> >Am Freitag, 8. September 2006 10:24 schrieb Jesper Juhl:
> >> On 08/09/06, Victor Hugo <victor@vhugo.net> wrote:
> >> > As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text
> >> > only e-mail without
> >> > wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any
> >> > suggestions about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> >> > Thunderbird?? Telnet??
> >>
> >> I personally use both 'pine' and 'kmail' and they both work perfectly
> >> for sending patches.
> >
> >With kmail, you have control over line breaks with Option -> Wrap lines,
> >which is useful for e.g. pasted syslog data, but remember to enable it
> >before writing the message, since you have to manually add line breaks
> >for the entered text too.
> >
> >Inlined patches should be added via Message -> Insert File to preserve
> >line breaks and white space.
>
> But be sure and turn word wrapping off before inserting the file, or
> pasting (usually bad I might add).  And my version of kmail wraps the
> whole document if the wrapping is turned back on, as it is now.  Which
> makes it rather frustrating.

To workaround this, I first type the message with wordwrapping on, then close 
the message window and let it save the message to Drafts. Then repoen the 
message from Drafts, turn off wordwrap and insert the patch using 
Message->Insert File. It's not great but still better than Thunderbird.

>
> >Pete
> >-
> >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel"
> > in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> >More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> >Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

-- 
Ondrej Zary

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Alistair John Strachan]

On Friday 08 September 2006 13:54, Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:
> Am Freitag, 8. September 2006 10:24 schrieb Jesper Juhl:
> > On 08/09/06, Victor Hugo <victor@vhugo.net> wrote:
> > > As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text
> > > only e-mail without
> > > wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any
> > > suggestions about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> > > Thunderbird?? Telnet??
> >
> > I personally use both 'pine' and 'kmail' and they both work perfectly
> > for sending patches.
>
> With kmail, you have control over line breaks with Option -> Wrap lines,
> which is useful for e.g. pasted syslog data, but remember to enable it
> before writing the message, since you have to manually add line breaks
> for the entered text too.
>
> Inlined patches should be added via Message -> Insert File to preserve
> line breaks and white space.

Another great feature of KMail is the ability to use an external editor for 
composition, but not be forced to use it for reading emails. If you find the 
KMail composer too clumsy, you can always have it fire up vim or emacs.

Settings -> Configure KMail -> Composer -> External Editor

-- 
Cheers,
Alistair.

Final year Computer Science undergraduate.
1F2 55 South Clerk Street, Edinburgh, UK.

LKML FAQ, newsgroups and newbies (was Re: [RFC] e-mail clients)

[Oleg Verych]

Jesper Juhl wrote:
> On 08/09/06, Victor Hugo <victor@vhugo.net> wrote:
>> about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
>> Thunderbird?? Telnet??
>>
> I personally use both 'pine' and 'kmail' and they both work perfectly
> for sending patches.
> 

Why NNTP was abandoned and development switched to pure SMTP+maillist ?

Pros and cons are. Classic NNTP consider "courtesy copies" (Cc) to be impolite,
pure SMTP eases scripting of handling patches. But, adding CCs to NNTP postings 
is possible, while reading big volumes is very convenient. Any backend SMTP 
MUA/MTA may be used for patch-handling job. Discussion about (any web-based) 
bugzilla vs e-mail, applies to NNTP: there are many readers (with e-mail 
support as well), easy managing, ASCII.

IMHO it's very good start for anyone. Thus i've found a way to step into 
development even i'm not cs, guru, hacker, just unix-like os (stupid) user, 
even have had read all that treating discussions about lkml volumes.

I use Mozilla-newsreader-gmane.org + SMTP MTA | mutt MUA, but couldn't yet 
develop patch handling, i didn't write a good one yet.

So things like:
* press articles' questions "It's so many messages in LKML, how one can read
   them all ???",
* SMTP@spam (key is _@_ ;),
* e-mail handling headache,
   is prize for not using NNTP as a primary. I really want to see reasonable
   explanations on question above. FAQ has "COLA = comp.os.linux.announce
   (newsgroup)", nothing more about NNTP as it used to be used.

-*- OT -*-

On every LKML post there's a message about FAQ URL, that page has
"NOTE: this page is no longer maintained..." (Dot coms boomed) Many 
linux-related sites also outdated. Advogato is going down (well most of linux 
developers moved from it years ago), we are getting older, having families, 
children, something becomes more/less important. So that's next ? (hopefully 
not an accelerated kernel-XML-Parser 4 Desktop Linux (R) ;)

Maybe linux-kernel need new blood ? Victor Hugo, being not from 
linux-visionaries, you're welcome.

-- 
-o--=O`C  /. .\  (i want ..., but with ENOPATCH) (+)
  #oo'L O      o					  |
<___=E M    ^--                                   | (you're ... the wrong ...)

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Paolo Ornati]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:02:03 -0700
Victor Hugo <victor@vhugo.net> wrote:

> As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text only 
> e-mail without
> wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any suggestions 
> about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> Thunderbird?? Telnet??

Sylpheed / Sylpheed-Claws

I don't remember every version but with Sylpheed-Claws 2.4.0 you can
configure it to wrap (or not):

- typed text
- quoted text
- pasted text

(Configuration -> Prefereces -> Compose -> Wrapping)

Moreover you have the "Insert File" button that inserts a file
"inline" (for wrapping it follows the "pasted text" rule).


Other useful things you can set are:
	outgoing encodig (I use ISO-8859-15)
	trensfer encoding (I use 8bit)

NOTE: if he can he falls back to US-ASCII / 7bit

-- 
	Paolo Ornati
	Linux 2.6.18-rc6 on x86_64

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Stefan Richter]

Victor Hugo wrote:
> As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text only 
> e-mail without wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).
> Any suggestions about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> Thunderbird?? Telnet??

TkRat can be quite conveniently toggled back and forth between
non-wrapping and wrapping editor mode.
-- 
Stefan Richter
-=====-=-==- =--= -=---
http://arcgraph.de/sr/

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Brice Goglin]

Victor Hugo wrote:
> As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text only
> e-mail without
> wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any
> suggestions about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> Thunderbird?? Telnet??

Mutt does the job very well.

Thunderbird requires that you switch to preformat style before
copy-pasting the patch (or use the external editor extension).

Brice

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Randy Dunlap]

> 
> 
> As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text only 
> e-mail without
> wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any 
suggestions 
> about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> Thunderbird?? Telnet??

pine (but make sure that it doesn't truncate trailing whitespace)
or mutt or sylpheed are all good.  tbird can be coerced into
working but it's not much fun (well, using attachments is easy,
but not good for people when reviewing/commenting on patches).

---
~Randy

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Jan Engelhardt]

>
>pine (but make sure that it doesn't truncate trailing whitespace)

Truncating whitespace at EOL is a good thing. Otherwise, quilt says

Warning: trailing whitespace in lines 237,364 of 
net/ipv4/netfilter/regexp/regexp.c
Warning: trailing whitespace in line 57 of 
net/ipv4/netfilter/regexp/regsub.c
Warning: trailing whitespace in lines 307,308,309 of 
net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_layer7.c

for example. Long lines are usually not broken up if pasted verbatim as this example line will show for sure abc.

pine wraps text only when typing (at least that's how I configured
mine), so it is all safe.


Jan Engelhardt
-- 

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Stefan Richter]

Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>> pine (but make sure that it doesn't truncate trailing whitespace)
> 
> Truncating whitespace at EOL is a good thing.
[...]

Trailing whitespace should be removed before generating the patch, not
while sending the patch.
-- 
Stefan Richter
-=====-=-==- =--= -==--
http://arcgraph.de/sr/

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Segher Boessenkool]

>> Truncating whitespace at EOL is a good thing.
> [...]
>
> Trailing whitespace should be removed before generating the patch, not
> while sending the patch.

And not even then, when the patch is removing trailing
whitespace :-)


Segher

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Randy.Dunlap]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:08:37 +0200 (MEST) Jan Engelhardt wrote:

> >
> >pine (but make sure that it doesn't truncate trailing whitespace)
> 
> Truncating whitespace at EOL is a good thing. Otherwise, quilt says
> 
> Warning: trailing whitespace in lines 237,364 of 
> net/ipv4/netfilter/regexp/regexp.c
> Warning: trailing whitespace in line 57 of 
> net/ipv4/netfilter/regexp/regsub.c
> Warning: trailing whitespace in lines 307,308,309 of 
> net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_layer7.c

Of course.  But there were/are versions of pine that truncate
whitespace "for you," even if such truncation is not desired,
independent of quilt et al.  So one wouldn't want to use that
"feature" for kernel patches.


> for example. Long lines are usually not broken up if pasted verbatim as this example line will show for sure abc.
> 
> pine wraps text only when typing (at least that's how I configured
> mine), so it is all safe.

---
~Randy

Re: [RFC] e-mail clients

[Lee Revell]

On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 20:32 -0700, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > As I've learned--most web-clients have a hard time sending text only 
> > e-mail without
> > wrapping every single line (not very good for patches).  Any 
> suggestions 
> > about which client to use on lkml?? Pine?? Mutt??
> > Thunderbird?? Telnet??
> 
> pine (but make sure that it doesn't truncate trailing whitespace)
> or mutt or sylpheed are all good.  tbird can be coerced into
> working but it's not much fun (well, using attachments is easy,
> but not good for people when reviewing/commenting on patches).

It's easy to post correct patches with Evolution...

Lee