* Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules)
@ 2006-12-14 21:09 Michael ODonald
2006-12-14 21:32 ` Greg KH
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Michael ODonald @ 2006-12-14 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel; +Cc: torvalds, gregkh
Linus Torvalds wrote:
> DMCA is bad because it puts technical limits over
> the rights expressly granted by copyright law.
The best ways to get rich corporations on our side in fighting the
DMCA is to use the DMCA to hurt their profits. Companies that rely on
binary drivers would have several options:
1) Lobby politicians to repeal the DMCA, thereby allowing the
companies to *internally* circumvent Linuxs GPL-only
pseudo-restriction all they want by simply changing the source code.
2) Release the binary drivers as open source or use their economic
clout to pressure the makers of the binary drivers.
3) Use FOSS-friendly hardware.
Im sorry, but theres currently no economic push for repealing the
DMCA; the only people trying to abolish it are idealists who are
easily out-bought by the media cartel. This is our only chance to put
some corporate money muscle behind the otherwise doomed anti-DMCA
movement.
And just to make it clear: Gregs proposal calls for a soft-DRM that
is by definition easily circumvented the only thing that prevents
companies from removing it is the blasted DMCA. Once the DMCA is
gone, so will be the soft-DRM.
> So it's ok when we do it, but bad when
> other people do it?
Those "other people" (Tivo/BlueRay/HD-DVD/Zune/PlayStation/Xbox) are
using hard-DRM (aka. Treacherous Computing) where the *hardware*
refuses to run modified code. By contrast, this proposed
GPL-enforcing mechanism is a soft-DRM that allows anyone with
mediocre coding skills to remove it. A binary module can even get
away with lying about its own license!
Even the current draft of the GPLv3 allows soft-DRM because soft-DRM
is so easily circumvented. The only entities hurt by pseudo-enforcing
the GPL through soft-DRM are the unscrupulous makers of binary
drivers, who are already infringing the GPL. In-house development of
binary-only drivers can still continue as usual: all you have to do
is not distribute the binary.
Let me quote from what Linus said in an article titled "Torvalds says
DRM isn't necessarily bad":
http://news.com.com/Torvalds+says+DRM+isnt+necessarily+bad/2100-7344_3-6034964.html
"""
Torvalds gave some examples of areas where he believes it's
appropriate for ... a computer to run only software versions that
have this digital signature to assure they're authorized.
A company might want to distribute a Linux version that loads only
kernel modules that have been signed, for example. Or they may want
one that marks the kernel as "tainted" if it loads unsigned modules,
Torvalds said.
"""
So why do you say its ok for Tivo to refuse to run FOSS modules on
their Treacherous platform, but *not* ok for FOSS developers to
uphold their rights? Are sleazy corporations subject to a different
set of laws or morals than us common folk?
No, laws are generally equitable and strive to provide each and every
one of us with the same legal tools. One such tool, the DMCA, has
been used far too often by monopolies to exterminate competition and
imprison consumers. Its time to give these monopolies a piece of
their own medicine. They either lobby politicians to abolish the DMCA
or they open-source the Linux drivers that they distribute. Now
thats a fair deal if I ever saw one!
PS: I encourage Greg and all developers who were initially in favor
of enforcing the GPL-only module policy to stand strong on this
important issue.
____________________________________________________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread* Re: Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules)
2006-12-14 21:09 Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules) Michael ODonald
@ 2006-12-14 21:32 ` Greg KH
2006-12-15 4:53 ` Abolishing the DMCA Alexandre Oliva
2006-12-15 1:06 ` Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules) Alan
2006-12-15 6:53 ` Willy Tarreau
2 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2006-12-14 21:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael ODonald; +Cc: linux-kernel, torvalds
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 01:09:06PM -0800, Michael ODonald wrote:
> PS: I encourage Greg and all developers who were initially in favor
> of enforcing the GPL-only module policy to stand strong on this
> important issue.
I think you missed the point that my patch prevents valid usages of
non-GPL modules from happening, which is not acceptable. The GPL comes
into play when the code is distributed, not when it is run. Because of
this, such a check like I did hurts people who are complying by the GPL
license of the kernel.
thanks,
greg k-h
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Abolishing the DMCA
2006-12-14 21:32 ` Greg KH
@ 2006-12-15 4:53 ` Alexandre Oliva
0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Alexandre Oliva @ 2006-12-15 4:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg KH; +Cc: Michael ODonald, linux-kernel, torvalds
On Dec 14, 2006, Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de> wrote:
> I think you missed the point that my patch prevents valid usages of
> non-GPL modules from happening, which is not acceptable.
What if you changed your patch so as to only permit loading of
possibly-infringing drivers after some flag in /proc is set, and
logging to the console a message explaining (i) why such drivers might
be infringing and how to contact the copyright holders to get the
infringement stopped, and (ii) how to get it loaded if you believe
it's ok.
Then the patch would change from a probably-harmful DRM technique to
an educational tool, that wouldn't impose any major inconvenience to
those who are entitled to use the combination of code that can't be
distributed.
--
Alexandre Oliva http://www.lsd.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/
FSF Latin America Board Member http://www.fsfla.org/
Red Hat Compiler Engineer aoliva@{redhat.com, gcc.gnu.org}
Free Software Evangelist oliva@{lsd.ic.unicamp.br, gnu.org}
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules)
2006-12-14 21:09 Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules) Michael ODonald
2006-12-14 21:32 ` Greg KH
@ 2006-12-15 1:06 ` Alan
2006-12-15 6:53 ` Willy Tarreau
2 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Alan @ 2006-12-15 1:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael ODonald; +Cc: linux-kernel, torvalds, gregkh
> The best ways to get rich corporations on our side in fighting the
> DMCA is to use the DMCA to hurt their profits. Companies that rely on
> binary drivers would have several options:
>
> 1) Lobby politicians to repeal the DMCA,
They already are. The tech industry is mostly anti DMCA and there are
plenty of deeply proprietary companies who fought against the DMCA, are
fighting the US broadcast flag idiocy and so on. So you'd be fighting the
wrong people.
Alan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules)
2006-12-14 21:09 Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules) Michael ODonald
2006-12-14 21:32 ` Greg KH
2006-12-15 1:06 ` Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules) Alan
@ 2006-12-15 6:53 ` Willy Tarreau
2 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Willy Tarreau @ 2006-12-15 6:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael ODonald; +Cc: linux-kernel, torvalds, gregkh
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 01:09:06PM -0800, Michael ODonald wrote:
> Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > DMCA is bad because it puts technical limits over
> > the rights expressly granted by copyright law.
>
> The best ways to get rich corporations on our side in fighting the
> DMCA is to use the DMCA to hurt their profits. Companies that rely on
> binary drivers would have several options:
>
> 1) Lobby politicians to repeal the DMCA, thereby allowing the
> companies to *internally* circumvent Linuxs GPL-only
> pseudo-restriction all they want by simply changing the source code.
>
> 2) Release the binary drivers as open source or use their economic
> clout to pressure the makers of the binary drivers.
>
> 3) Use FOSS-friendly hardware.
>
> Im sorry, but theres currently no economic push for repealing the
> DMCA; the only people trying to abolish it are idealists who are
> easily out-bought by the media cartel. This is our only chance to put
> some corporate money muscle behind the otherwise doomed anti-DMCA
> movement.
4) make no effort to support Linux
You're not the center of the world, never forget it !
Willy
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
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2006-12-14 21:09 Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules) Michael ODonald
2006-12-14 21:32 ` Greg KH
2006-12-15 4:53 ` Abolishing the DMCA Alexandre Oliva
2006-12-15 1:06 ` Abolishing the DMCA (was GPL only modules) Alan
2006-12-15 6:53 ` Willy Tarreau
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