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From: Denis Vlasenko <vda.linux@googlemail.com>
To: Phillip Susi <psusi@cfl.rr.com>
Cc: Michael Tokarev <mjt@tls.msk.ru>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>, Viktor <vvp01@inbox.ru>,
	Aubrey <aubreylee@gmail.com>, Hua Zhong <hzhong@gmail.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, hch@infradead.org,
	kenneth.w.chen@in
Subject: Re: O_DIRECT question
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 00:16:46 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200701270016.46951.vda.linux@googlemail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <45BA34EE.4050402@cfl.rr.com>

On Friday 26 January 2007 18:05, Phillip Susi wrote:
> Denis Vlasenko wrote:
> > Which shouldn't be true. There is no fundamental reason why
> > ordinary writes should be slower than O_DIRECT.
> 
> Again, there IS a reason:  O_DIRECT eliminates the cpu overhead of the 
> kernel-user copy,

You assume that ordinary read()/write() is *required* to do the copying.
It doesn't. Kernel is allowed to do direct DMAing in this case too.

> and when coupled with multithreading or aio, allows  
> the IO queues to be kept full with useful transfers at all times.

Again, ordinary I/O is no different. Especially on fds opened with O_SYNC,
write() will behave very similarly to O_DIRECT one - data is guaranteed
to hit the disk before write() returns.

> Normal read/write requires the kernel to buffer and guess access

No it doesn't *require* that.

> patterns correctly to perform read ahead and write behind perfectly to 
> keep the queues full.  In practice, this does not happen perfectly all 
> of the time, or even most of the time, so it slows things down.

So lets fix the kernel for everyone's benefit intead of "give us
an API specifically for our needs".
--
vda

  reply	other threads:[~2007-01-26 23:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-01-11  2:57 O_DIRECT question Aubrey
2007-01-11  3:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11  3:15   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11  6:09     ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11 15:50       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 16:19         ` Aubrey
2007-01-16  3:41           ` Jörn Engel
2007-01-11 16:23         ` bert hubert
2007-01-11 16:52         ` Xavier Bestel
2007-01-11 17:04           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 18:41             ` Trond Myklebust
2007-01-11 19:00               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 19:49                 ` Trond Myklebust
2007-01-12 17:03             ` Viktor
2007-01-20 16:19         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22 15:52           ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11  5:50   ` Aubrey
2007-01-11  6:06     ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11  6:45       ` Aubrey
2007-01-11  6:57         ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11  7:05           ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11  7:54             ` Aubrey
2007-01-11  8:05               ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11 16:45                 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-17  4:29                   ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-12  2:12                 ` Aubrey
2007-01-12  2:47                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  3:59                   ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11  8:12               ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11  8:49                 ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11  9:09                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  2:48                 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-12  4:30                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  4:46                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12  4:56                       ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  4:58                         ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  5:18                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12  5:22                         ` Aubrey
2007-01-12 14:59                           ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-13  4:51                             ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11  6:16     ` Alexander Shishkin
2007-01-11  6:57       ` Aubrey
2007-01-11 12:13   ` Viktor
2007-01-11 15:53     ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11 16:20     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 17:13       ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-11 23:01         ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11 23:06           ` Hua Zhong
2007-01-12 15:21             ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-20 16:36         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-20 20:55           ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-20 23:05             ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-21 12:09               ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-21 20:02                 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22 16:17                   ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-24 21:15                     ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 15:44                       ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 17:38                         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 19:28                           ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 19:52                             ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 20:03                               ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 20:45                                 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-25 21:11                                   ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-26 16:02                                     ` Mark Lord
2007-01-26 16:52                                       ` Viktor
2007-01-26 16:58                                       ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-26 17:05                                     ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-26 23:16                                       ` Denis Vlasenko [this message]
2007-02-06 20:39                                         ` Pavel Machek
2007-01-26 18:23                                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-26 23:35                                       ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-28 15:18                                         ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-28 17:03                                           ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-29 15:43                                             ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-29 17:00                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30  0:05                                               ` Denis Vlasenko
     [not found]                                               ` <45BE7D99.70200@cfl.rr.com>
     [not found]                                                 ` <20070130023056.GN8030@opteron.random>
     [not found]                                                   ` <45BF65E3.6070102@cfl.rr.com>
     [not found]                                                     ` <20070130164806.GQ8030@opteron.random>
2007-01-30 18:50                                                       ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-30 19:57                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30 20:06                                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30 23:07                                                           ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-31  2:28                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-31  9:37                                                             ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-26 15:53                   ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-11 17:42       ` Alan
2007-01-11 18:00         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12  7:57       ` dean gaudet
2007-01-12 15:27         ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-12 18:06         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 20:23           ` Chris Mason
2007-01-12 20:46             ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 20:52               ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 21:03                 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 21:17                   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 21:54                     ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 22:09                       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 22:26                         ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 22:35                         ` Erik Andersen
2007-01-12 22:47                           ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-14  9:11                             ` Nate Diller
2007-01-20 16:45                               ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22  1:47                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-13 20:07                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-13 20:27                       ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-14 15:39                         ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-12 21:39                   ` Disk Cache, Was: " Zan Lynx
2007-01-12 22:10                     ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-15 12:11               ` Helge Hafting
2007-01-12 16:59       ` Viktor
2007-01-11 12:45   ` Erik Mouw
2007-01-11  4:51 ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11  5:06   ` Gerrit Huizenga
2007-01-11 16:09   ` Badari Pulavarty
2007-01-11 12:34 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-01-11 13:06   ` Martin Mares
2007-01-11 14:15   ` Jens Axboe
2007-01-12  2:13   ` Bill Davidsen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-01-17 14:27 Alex Tomas
2007-01-22 15:59 Al Boldi
     [not found] <7BYkO-5OV-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <7BYul-6gz-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <7C18X-1zo-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7C1iw-22q-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <7C1Vb-2Ny-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]         ` <7C256-2ZR-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]           ` <7C2eE-3rT-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]             ` <7C31d-4qb-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]               ` <7C3kj-55E-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-11 13:20                 ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]   ` <7C74B-2A4-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7CaYA-mT-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <7Cpuz-64X-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]         ` <7Cz0T-4PH-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]           ` <7CBcl-86B-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]             ` <7CBvH-52-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]               ` <7CBFn-hw-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                 ` <7CBP1-KI-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                   ` <7CBYG-WK-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-13 16:53                     ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-13 19:30                       ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-14 18:51                         ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]                     ` <7CXmz-88G-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                       ` <7CXFR-8vZ-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                         ` <7DfMP-2ak-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-14 19:39                           ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]               ` <7DyYK-6lE-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-16 20:26                 ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-17  5:55                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-01-17 22:36                     ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found] ` <7HkaQ-2Nb-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <7HDZP-Pv-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7HIPV-8kp-35@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-27 14:01       ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-27 14:14         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-28 15:30           ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-28 17:18             ` Denis Vlasenko

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