From: "D. Hazelton" <dhazelton@enter.net>
To: "Michael K. Edwards" <medwards.linux@gmail.com>
Cc: "Pavel Machek" <pavel@ucw.cz>,
davids@webmaster.com, "v j" <vj.linux@gmail.com>,
trent.waddington@gmail.com,
"Linux-Kernel@Vger. Kernel. Org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"Neil Brown" <neilb@suse.de>
Subject: Re: GPL vs non-GPL device drivers
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:15:22 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200702251515.22703.dhazelton@enter.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <f2b55d220702250354j29583e5ak1397d28ef7028783@mail.gmail.com>
On Sunday 25 February 2007 06:54, Michael K. Edwards wrote:
> On 2/25/07, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz> wrote:
<snip>
> But a 20KLoC 3-D graphics driver that happens to #include
> <linux/whatever.h> is not thereby a "derivative work" of the kernel,
> no matter how many entrypoints are labeled EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL or
> provided as inline functions. And under the Lexmark standard,
> MODULE_LICENSE("GPL") with a disclaimer in the doco is by far the
> sanest way to deal with the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL mind games, and likely
> (IANAL, TINLA) to be endorsed by any court in the US and probably lots
> of other places too. Especially when the graphics chip maker explains
> that keeping their driver source code closed isn't really an attempt
> to hide their knowledge under a bushel basket. It's a defensive
> measure against having their retail margins destroyed by nitwits who
> take out all the busy-wait loops and recompile with -O9 to get another
> tenth of a frame per second, and then pretend ignorance when
> attempting to return their slagged GPU at Fry's.
At that point, Mike, you are treading on *very* thin ice. With Intel having
released the complete source to their chipsets and with the number of totally
free 3D drivers that don't slag GPU's...
However - if the hardware is really that fickle then why is it on the market?
Yes, it can run hot enough to slag itself - all modern CPU's run the same
risk. Yet people, mostly the "Power Gamers", will push a CPU beyond their
rated spec's and have it riding the edge of thermal breakdown. Because of the
nature of the 3D accelerator market most manufacturers (of the chips
themselves) have already pushed their chips to that thermal edge, and some of
the makers of the boards will even provide the end user means to push the
chips even further.
However, even *with* some hardware manufacturers providing a way for the
end-user to do it, pushing the componets to the edge of thermal breakdown (or
beyond and keeping them in check through an active cooling system) is
not "normal and expected use". As well, if the that is the argument that
NVidia and ATI use (that they are worried about people recompiling the code
with busy-loops stripped out) then they don't know the Open Source community
well. In general the people that are most likely to recompile the driver with
the busy-loops removed don't run Open Source systems - they run Windows.
Those people are called "competetive gamers" and 99% of the games they play
are only available for Windows.
What I'm trying to say is: Just like the "It gives away too much information
on our IP" claim, the "People will recompile it with code needed to keep it
from destroying itself" claim is bunk. Even moreso if their code is
documented well enough that the purpose of the busy-wait loop is clear.
DRH
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-02-25 20:16 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 255+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <9b3a62ab0702142115m4ea7d2c0m6869eb64ef3ee14e@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15 5:16 ` GPL vs non-GPL device drivers v j
[not found] ` <75b66ecd0702142130x64824694ieee1869d0d70ab15@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15 5:38 ` v j
2007-02-15 5:47 ` Trent Waddington
[not found] ` <9b3a62ab0702142214p5c33a02am7e783c59ae0a64f1@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15 6:16 ` v j
2007-02-15 12:45 ` Neil Horman
2007-02-15 6:35 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 6:46 ` v j
2007-02-15 6:56 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 7:32 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 9:44 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-15 10:50 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 14:24 ` Jan De Luyck
2007-02-15 14:37 ` Benny Amorsen
2007-02-15 14:47 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 17:49 ` Jan Knutar
2007-02-15 7:55 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 14:45 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 20:21 ` Chris Snook
2007-02-15 22:34 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16 4:20 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-15 6:11 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 6:27 ` v j
2007-02-15 6:43 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 6:55 ` v j
2007-02-15 7:02 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 7:09 ` v j
2007-02-15 7:18 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 7:30 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 11:52 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-15 7:11 ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-15 7:28 ` v j
2007-02-15 7:43 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 7:53 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 8:11 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 8:35 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 20:56 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 21:51 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 0:38 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 12:53 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-17 2:42 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 8:29 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-18 2:55 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 3:26 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18 6:56 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 7:20 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 8:54 ` Oleg Verych
2007-02-18 23:42 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 13:57 ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-18 21:16 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18 1:26 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18 1:28 ` David Lang
2007-02-18 1:51 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 17:48 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-19 20:55 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 21:53 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:26 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 22:48 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:58 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 23:18 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 23:26 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 0:28 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20 0:36 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 0:50 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20 0:55 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 0:58 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20 1:00 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 7:48 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 8:24 ` v j
2007-02-20 9:01 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 1:29 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-20 5:19 ` v j
2007-02-20 10:54 ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-20 11:00 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-20 15:14 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-20 15:39 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-20 14:36 ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-20 20:30 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2007-02-21 12:45 ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-21 22:08 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:30 ` Nuno Silva
2007-02-22 0:26 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:34 ` David Lang
2007-02-22 0:28 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 1:30 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22 2:05 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 4:17 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22 4:24 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-22 6:12 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 9:28 ` Jon K Hellan
2007-02-22 16:45 ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-22 20:30 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25 0:59 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-22 14:14 ` Alan
2007-02-22 22:42 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 0:18 ` Alan
2007-02-23 1:12 ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-23 1:21 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:10 ` Alan
2007-02-22 21:36 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22 22:28 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 10:42 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-25 11:33 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-25 19:39 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-26 0:47 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-26 1:54 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25 11:54 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 13:52 ` Alan
2007-02-25 14:21 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 19:10 ` Alan
2007-02-26 10:16 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-26 14:12 ` Alan
2007-02-25 22:27 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-26 10:17 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 20:15 ` D. Hazelton [this message]
2007-02-25 17:56 ` Stephen Clark
2007-02-19 22:47 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 13:09 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-15 8:12 ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 10:01 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 10:51 ` Mohammed Gamal
2007-02-15 11:00 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 11:05 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 11:17 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 11:15 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 11:35 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 13:14 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-15 14:43 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 16:22 ` Stuart MacDonald
2007-02-16 0:36 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-16 9:44 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-16 9:58 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 7:24 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 9:54 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 14:14 ` Neil Horman
2007-02-15 14:43 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 16:25 ` Rik van Riel
2007-02-15 16:53 ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-15 18:20 ` v j
2007-02-15 18:41 ` Josh Boyer
2007-02-16 15:34 ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-15 18:58 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 19:02 ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-16 1:12 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-16 1:14 ` David Lang
2007-02-16 5:48 ` v j
2007-02-16 5:57 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 6:25 ` v j
2007-02-16 6:40 ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-16 6:45 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 9:16 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 10:00 ` Joshua Simmons
2007-02-16 11:42 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 11:51 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 13:29 ` Joshua Simmons
2007-02-17 2:42 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 6:44 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 7:26 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 10:35 ` Richard Knutsson
2007-02-16 17:12 ` Dave Neuer
2007-02-16 21:26 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-18 17:08 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-17 2:42 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 10:46 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-17 14:19 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 23:30 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-17 23:55 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 9:00 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-19 17:53 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-18 5:15 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 22:18 ` Dave Neuer
2007-02-17 23:04 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 23:04 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16 9:52 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 13:44 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 10:30 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 10:38 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 14:04 ` Neil Horman
2007-02-16 14:14 ` Jesper Juhl
2007-02-17 2:59 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 6:32 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 13:27 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 19:29 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-17 21:15 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 20:31 ` Alan
2007-02-19 20:20 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 20:48 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-19 21:50 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:12 ` Michael Dreher
2007-02-17 21:21 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-18 4:38 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 15:40 ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-16 9:12 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-16 9:44 ` Jon K Hellan
2007-02-16 11:41 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-16 6:46 ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-15 19:27 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2007-02-16 1:24 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-15 22:21 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16 0:04 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16 0:37 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16 2:09 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16 2:12 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 4:00 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 5:16 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16 5:57 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-15 22:42 ` Gene Heskett
2007-02-16 1:48 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-17 4:03 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-17 4:19 ` Gene Heskett
[not found] ` <7b69d1470702151705h297c3b38g138eb0138b900aea@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-16 2:00 ` v j
2007-02-16 6:07 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-16 8:36 ` Martin Mares
2007-02-16 17:00 ` Matthew Frost
2007-02-16 17:52 ` Matthew Frost
2007-02-20 14:55 ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-16 0:10 ` Greg Trounson
2007-02-16 0:18 ` Lee Revell
2007-02-16 0:37 ` Greg Trounson
2007-02-16 1:58 ` Lee Revell
2007-02-16 0:58 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-18 16:42 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-15 6:15 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 6:51 ` Gene Heskett
2007-02-15 6:23 ` Ben Nizette
2007-02-15 7:40 ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 20:56 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 21:53 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 22:41 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-15 23:20 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 7:36 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-15 8:04 ` v j
2007-02-15 8:13 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-15 8:17 ` Richard Knutsson
2007-02-15 8:40 ` v j
2007-02-15 19:36 ` Jörn Engel
2007-02-15 8:24 ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 11:52 ` Martin Mares
2007-02-16 4:13 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 13:32 ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-15 11:54 ` Mws
2007-02-15 12:51 ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-15 14:32 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-15 14:54 ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-16 8:19 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 9:25 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 15:33 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-16 15:58 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-15 15:18 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-15 11:06 Ihar `Philips` Filipau
[not found] <7OHci-7fx-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OHci-7fx-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OJnQ-24B-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OJQP-2VO-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-02-15 11:53 ` Bodo Eggert
[not found] ` <7OI8n-fp-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OIi9-tI-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OS7S-7tW-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OTx3-1tH-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-02-15 23:40 ` Bodo Eggert
[not found] <fa.GPbYGi2HYDPl2WlRgsq2dPbD6cM@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.5t0XkAtEpB2nDYFPJKUBce9BKFE@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.upvZMIS42lj8Tbudh1OdnbDn+Ts@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.821rWTmf8FgAMnDeO7b6yeUeXYg@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.+3hIy95KSdtolNz5kNmm6qk4FU8@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-15 23:31 ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-16 15:29 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-16 23:08 ` Robert Hancock
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-04-01 12:16 devzero
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