From: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>
To: Evgeniy Polyakov <johnpol@2ka.mipt.ru>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>,
Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@zip.com.au>,
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Zach Brown <zach.brown@oracle.com>,
"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
Suparna Bhattacharya <suparna@in.ibm.com>,
Davide Libenzi <davidel@xmailserver.org>,
Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Subject: Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 06:52:22 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070227115221.GJ8154@thunk.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070227102832.GC23170@2ka.mipt.ru>
On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 01:28:32PM +0300, Evgeniy Polyakov wrote:
> Obviously there are bugs, it is simply how things work.
> And debugging state machine code has exactly the same complexity as
> debugging multi-threading code - if not less...
Evgeniy,
I think what you are not hearing, and what everyone else is saying
(INCLUDING Linus), is that for most programmers, state machines are
much, much harder to program, understand, and debug compared to
multi-threaded code. You may disagree (were you a MacOS 9 programmer
in another life?), and it may not even be true for you if you happen
to be one of those folks more at home with Scheme continuations, for
example. But it is true that for most kernel programmers, threaded
programming is much easier to understand, and we need to engineer the
kernel for what will be maintainable for the majority of the kernel
development community.
Regards,
- Ted
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-02-27 11:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 353+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-02-21 21:13 [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:14 ` [patch 01/13] syslets: add async.h include file, kernel-side API definitions Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 02/13] syslets: add syslet.h include file, user API/ABI definitions Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 03/13] syslets: generic kernel bits Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 04/13] syslets: core code Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 23:08 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-24 7:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-24 21:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-24 22:08 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-02-24 22:25 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-25 7:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 05/13] syslets: core, documentation Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 21:32 ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-27 6:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 06/13] x86: split FPU state from task state Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 07/13] syslets: x86, add create_async_thread() method Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 08/13] syslets: x86, add move_user_context() method Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 23:03 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-21 23:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 4:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 09/13] syslets: x86, mark async unsafe syscalls Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 10/13] syslets: x86: enable ASYNC_SUPPORT Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 11/13] syslets: x86, wire up the syslet system calls Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 12/13] syslets: x86: optimized copy_uatom() Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:16 ` [patch 13/13] syslets: x86: optimized sys_umem_add() Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 22:46 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 22:57 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 0:53 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 1:33 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 6:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 8:59 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 19:52 ` x86 hardware and transputers (Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3) Oleg Verych
2007-02-22 20:45 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:03 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 23:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 0:55 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 23:46 ` Ulrich Drepper
2007-02-22 7:40 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 11:31 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 11:52 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-22 12:39 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 13:41 ` David Miller
2007-02-22 14:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 14:47 ` David Miller
2007-02-22 15:02 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 15:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 15:29 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 17:17 ` David Miller
2007-02-23 11:12 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 20:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-22 21:30 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-22 14:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 21:42 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:53 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-22 12:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 13:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 19:46 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 12:15 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-23 17:43 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 18:01 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-23 20:43 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 11:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 12:22 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-23 12:41 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 17:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:09 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 19:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 19:42 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 20:38 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 12:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 14:05 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 14:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 16:55 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:35 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 22:06 ` Bill Huey
2007-02-27 10:09 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 17:13 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-27 2:18 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-27 10:13 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 16:01 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-27 16:21 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 16:58 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-02-27 17:06 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 19:20 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-26 19:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-25 23:14 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:17 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-22 14:36 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 14:23 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-22 21:24 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 0:30 ` Alan
2007-02-23 2:47 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 8:31 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 10:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 12:37 ` Alan
2007-02-23 23:49 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 1:08 ` Alan
2007-02-24 0:51 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 2:17 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 3:25 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 12:17 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-24 19:52 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 21:04 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-24 23:01 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 22:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-26 13:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 17:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 18:19 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-26 18:38 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 18:56 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-26 19:20 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 17:28 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 17:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-26 18:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 19:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-26 19:30 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-27 8:09 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 19:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 10:28 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 11:52 ` Theodore Tso [this message]
2007-02-27 12:11 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 12:13 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 12:40 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-28 16:14 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-01 8:18 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 9:26 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-01 9:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 9:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 10:59 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:16 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:36 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:41 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 12:10 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:43 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 13:01 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 13:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 13:30 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 14:19 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 14:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 14:31 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 14:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 14:54 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 15:09 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 15:36 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 10:57 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 11:48 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 17:32 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 19:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 20:18 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 20:29 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 20:53 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 21:21 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-03-02 21:43 ` Nicholas Miell
2007-03-03 0:52 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 1:36 ` Nicholas Miell
2007-03-03 1:48 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2007-03-03 2:19 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 7:19 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-03 7:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-03 9:02 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 19:31 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 8:10 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 17:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 19:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 10:06 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-03 18:46 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 20:31 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-03 21:57 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 22:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-04 16:23 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-04 17:46 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-03-05 5:23 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-03-04 21:17 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-04 22:49 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-04 22:57 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-05 4:46 ` Magnus Naeslund(k)
2007-03-06 8:19 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-07 12:02 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-07 17:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-07 17:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-07 18:21 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-07 18:24 ` Jens Axboe
2007-03-07 18:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:01 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:14 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 11:20 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:28 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 11:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 13:12 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 14:43 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 14:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 15:23 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 15:32 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 15:41 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 15:51 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 15:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 19:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 14:57 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:19 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 13:26 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 13:32 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 14:24 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 16:56 ` David Lang
2007-03-01 17:56 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 18:41 ` David Lang
2007-03-01 19:19 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 10:11 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-01 10:19 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:18 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 10:27 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-02 10:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 10:56 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 11:08 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 17:28 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 10:27 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 19:24 ` Johann Borck
2007-03-01 19:37 ` David Lang
2007-03-01 20:34 ` Johann Borck
2007-02-27 12:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 13:14 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 13:32 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-28 3:03 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-28 8:02 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-28 17:01 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-03-05 2:16 ` Discussing LKML community [OT from the Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3] Oleg Verych
2007-02-28 16:38 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Phillip Susi
2007-02-22 19:38 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 9:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 16:17 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 16:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-28 17:26 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 18:22 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 18:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-28 18:50 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 19:03 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-28 19:42 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 8:38 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 9:28 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-28 23:12 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 1:33 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-03-01 9:15 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 21:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-28 20:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 21:09 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 21:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 21:46 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 22:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 22:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-22 21:23 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-22 21:32 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2007-02-22 21:44 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-22 1:04 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 7:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 9:29 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 10:01 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-22 11:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 12:52 ` A quick fio test (was Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3) Jens Axboe
2007-02-23 13:55 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-23 14:58 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 15:15 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-23 16:25 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-23 17:13 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-23 18:35 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-26 13:57 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-26 14:13 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-26 14:18 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 14:45 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 4:33 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-27 9:42 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 11:12 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 11:29 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 12:19 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 18:45 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 19:08 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 19:25 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 12:39 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-28 8:31 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-28 8:38 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 9:07 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 13:54 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-27 15:25 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 16:15 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-27 16:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 16:26 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-27 18:49 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-26 21:40 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 16:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 22:31 ` Joel Becker
2007-02-24 12:18 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-24 7:41 ` [patchset] Syslets/threadlets, generic AIO support, v4 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-24 18:34 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 17:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 17:44 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 17:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:21 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 18:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 18:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 20:01 ` Frederik Deweerdt
2007-02-25 19:21 ` Ingo Molnar
[not found] ` <20070225194645.GB1353@2ka.mipt.ru>
[not found] ` <20070225195308.GC15681@elte.hu>
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702251232350.6011@alien.or.mcafeemobile.com>
2007-02-25 21:34 ` threadlets as 'naive pool of threads', epoll, some measurements Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 11:48 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 12:25 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 12:50 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 14:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 8:16 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 8:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 10:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 12:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 12:22 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 21:22 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-26 8:16 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 9:25 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 9:55 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:43 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:02 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-26 10:33 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 10:35 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 12:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 16:46 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 6:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 10:41 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 10:49 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:25 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 18:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 14:33 ` Threadlet/syslet v4 bug report Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 15:24 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-02-22 12:27 [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 linux
2007-02-22 13:40 ` David Miller
2007-02-22 23:52 ` linux
2007-02-25 19:10 Al Boldi
2007-02-25 19:11 Al Boldi
2007-02-27 14:15 Al Boldi
2007-02-27 19:22 ` Theodore Tso
2007-03-01 10:21 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-27 14:15 Al Boldi
[not found] <efa6f5910703021120ia0b8d18ne0c806eb2e73da4c@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <20070303103427.GC22557@2ka.mipt.ru>
2007-03-03 10:58 ` Ihar `Philips` Filipau
2007-03-03 11:03 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-03 11:51 ` Ihar `Philips` Filipau
2007-03-03 21:12 ` Ray Lee
2007-03-03 22:14 ` Ihar `Philips` Filipau
2007-03-03 23:54 ` Ray Lee
2007-03-04 9:33 ` Michael K. Edwards
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