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From: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
To: Christoph Lameter <clameter@sgi.com>
Cc: David Chinner <dgc@sgi.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Mel Gorman <mel@skynet.ie>,
	William Lee Irwin III <wli@holomorphy.com>,
	Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
	Badari Pulavarty <pbadari@gmail.com>,
	Maxim Levitsky <maximlevitsky@gmail.com>,
	Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [00/17] Large Blocksize Support V3
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:52:47 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070427235247.3576a463.akpm@linux-foundation.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704272319170.7610@schroedinger.engr.sgi.com>

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Christoph Lameter <clameter@sgi.com> wrote:

> > Fact is, this change has *costs*.  And you're completely ignoring them,
> > trying to spin them away.  It ain't working and it never will.  I'm seeing
> > no serious attempt to think about how we can reduce those costs while
> > retaining most of the benefits.
> 
> Well okay my work is "no serious attempt".

No.  My point is, you have resisted all attempts to explore less costly
*alternatives* to this work.  Alternatives.

By misunderstanding any suggestions, misrepresenting them, making incorrect
statements about them, by not suggesting any alternatives yourself, all of
it buttressed by a stolid refusal to recognise that this patch has any
costs.

This effectively leaves it up to others to find time to think about and to
implement possible alternative solutions to the problems which you're
observing.


The altenative which is on the table (and there may be others) is
populating pagecache with physically contiguous pages.  This will fix the
HBA problem and is much less costly in terms of maintenance and will
improve all workloads on all machines and doesn't have the additional
runtime costs of pagecache wastage and more memset() overhead with small
files and it doesn't require administrator intervention.

OTOH (yes!  there are tradeoffs!) it will consume an unknown amount more
CPU and it doesn't address the large-fs-blocksize requirement, but I don't
know how important the latter is and given the unrelenting advocacy storm
coming from the SGI direction I don't know how to find that out, frankly.

  reply	other threads:[~2007-04-28  6:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 235+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-04-24 22:21 [00/17] Large Blocksize Support V3 clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [01/17] Remove open coded implementation of memclear_highpage flush clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [02/17] Fix page allocation flags in grow_dev_page() clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [03/17] Fix: find_or_create_page does not spread memory clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [04/17] Free up page->private for compound pages clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [05/17] More compound page features clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [06/17] Fix up handling of Compound head pages clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [07/17] vmstat.c: Support accounting for compound pages clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [08/17] Define functions for page cache handling clameter
2007-04-24 23:00   ` Eric Dumazet
2007-04-25  6:27     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [09/17] Convert PAGE_CACHE_xxx -> page_cache_xxx function calls clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [10/17] Variable Order Page Cache: Add clearing and flushing function clameter
2007-04-26  7:02   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  8:14     ` David Chinner
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [11/17] Readahead support for the variable order page cache clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [12/17] Variable Page Cache Size: Fix up reclaim counters clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [13/17] set_blocksize: Allow to set a larger block size than PAGE_SIZE clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [14/17] Add VM_BUG_ONs to check for correct page order clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [15/17] ramfs: Variable order page cache support clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [16/17] ext2: " clameter
2007-04-24 22:21 ` [17/17] xfs: " clameter
2007-04-25  0:46 ` [00/17] Large Blocksize Support V3 Jörn Engel
2007-04-25  0:47 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-04-25  3:11 ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-25 11:35 ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-25 15:36   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-25 17:53     ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-25 18:03       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-25 18:05         ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-25 18:14           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-25 18:16             ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-25 13:28 ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-25 15:23   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-25 22:46 ` Badari Pulavarty
2007-04-26  1:14   ` David Chinner
2007-04-26  1:17     ` David Chinner
2007-04-26  4:51 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26  5:05   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  5:44     ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26  6:37       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  9:16         ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26  6:38       ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  6:46         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  6:57           ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  7:10             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  7:22               ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  7:34                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  7:48                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  9:20                     ` David Chinner
2007-04-26 13:53                       ` Avi Kivity
2007-04-26 14:33                         ` David Chinner
2007-04-26 14:56                           ` Avi Kivity
2007-04-26 15:20                       ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 17:42                         ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 18:59                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26 16:07                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-27 10:05                       ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-27 13:06                         ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26 13:50                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-26 18:09                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26 23:34                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-26  7:48                 ` Questions on printk and console_drivers gshan
2007-04-26 10:06           ` [00/17] Large Blocksize Support V3 Mel Gorman
2007-04-26 14:47             ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 15:58         ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-26 16:05           ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 16:16             ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-26 13:28       ` Alan Cox
2007-04-26 13:30         ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-29 14:12         ` Matt Mackall
2007-04-28 10:55       ` Pierre Ossman
2007-04-28 15:39         ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26  5:37   ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  6:38     ` David Chinner
2007-04-26  6:50       ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  8:40         ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26  8:55           ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 10:30             ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26 10:54               ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26 12:23                 ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26 17:58                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26 18:02                   ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 16:11         ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-26 17:49           ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26 18:03             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26 18:03               ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 18:09                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-26 18:12                   ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 18:24                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-26 18:24                       ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 18:28                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26 18:29                       ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 18:35                         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26 18:39                           ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 19:35                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26 19:42                               ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-27  4:05                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-27 10:26                                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-27 13:51                                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26 20:22                             ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-27  0:21                               ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-27  5:16                               ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-27 10:38           ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 10:10       ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26 13:50         ` David Chinner
2007-04-26 14:40           ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-26 15:38           ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 15:58             ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-27  9:46               ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-27  0:19           ` Jeremy Higdon
2007-04-26 18:07         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26 18:45           ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26 18:59             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26 19:21               ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-26  6:40     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  6:53       ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  7:04         ` David Chinner
2007-04-26  7:07           ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  7:11             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  7:17               ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  7:28                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  7:45                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 18:10                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27 10:08                       ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  7:07         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  7:15           ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26  7:22             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26  7:42               ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 10:48                 ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26 12:37                 ` Andy Whitcroft
2007-04-26 14:18                   ` David Chinner
2007-04-26 15:08                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 15:19                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-26 15:28                     ` David Chinner
2007-04-26 14:53                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-26 18:16                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-26 18:21                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-27  0:32                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-27 10:22                       ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-27 12:58                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-27 13:06                           ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-27 14:49                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-26 18:13                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27 10:15                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 14:49               ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-26 18:50 ` Maxim Levitsky
2007-04-27  2:04 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-27  2:27   ` David Chinner
2007-04-27  2:53     ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-27  3:47       ` [00/17] Large Blocksize Support V3 (mmap conceptual discussion) Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27  4:20       ` [00/17] Large Blocksize Support V3 David Chinner
2007-04-27  5:15         ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-27  5:49           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27  6:55             ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-27  7:19               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27  7:26                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-27  8:37                   ` David Chinner
2007-04-27 12:01                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27 16:36                   ` David Chinner
2007-04-27 17:34                     ` David Chinner
2007-04-27 19:11                       ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28  1:43                         ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-28  8:04                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-04-28  8:22                             ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28  8:32                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-04-28  8:55                                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28  9:36                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-04-28 14:09                               ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-28 18:26                                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28 19:19                                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-28 21:28                                     ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28  3:17                         ` David Chinner
2007-04-28  3:49                           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-28  4:56                           ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28  5:08                             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-28  5:36                               ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28  6:24                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-28  6:52                                   ` Andrew Morton [this message]
2007-04-30  5:30                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-28  9:43                             ` Alan Cox
2007-04-28  9:58                               ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28 10:21                                 ` Alan Cox
2007-04-28 10:25                                   ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28 11:29                                     ` Alan Cox
2007-04-28 14:37                                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-27  7:22               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27  7:29                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-27  7:35                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27  7:43                     ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-27 11:05               ` Paul Mackerras
2007-04-27 11:41                 ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-27 12:12                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27 12:25                     ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-27 13:39                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-28  2:27                         ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-28  2:39                           ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-28  2:50                             ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-28  3:16                               ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-28  8:16                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-27 16:48                       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27 13:37                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-27 12:14                   ` Paul Mackerras
2007-04-27 12:36                     ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-27 13:42                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-27 11:58                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-04-27 13:44               ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-27 19:15                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28  2:21                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-27  6:09           ` David Chinner
2007-04-27  7:04             ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-27  8:03               ` David Chinner
2007-04-27  8:48                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-27 16:45                   ` Theodore Tso
2007-05-04 13:33                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-05-07  4:29                       ` David Chinner
2007-05-07  4:48                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-05-07  5:27                           ` David Chinner
2007-05-07  6:43                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-05-07  6:49                               ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-05-07  7:06                                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-05-08  8:49                                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-05-07 16:06                               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-05-07 17:29                                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-05-04 12:57                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-05-04 13:31                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-05-04 16:11                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-05-07  4:58                   ` David Chinner
2007-05-07  6:56                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-05-07 15:17                       ` Weigert, Daniel
2007-04-27 16:55           ` Theodore Tso
2007-04-27 17:32             ` Nicholas Miell
2007-04-27 18:12               ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-04-28 16:39 ` Maxim Levitsky
2007-04-30  5:23   ` Christoph Lameter

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