From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1757568AbXKLXk0 (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:40:26 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1752753AbXKLXkO (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:40:14 -0500 Received: from enyo.dsw2k3.info ([195.71.86.239]:34696 "EHLO enyo.dsw2k3.info" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751814AbXKLXkM (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:40:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:39:55 +0100 From: Matthias Schniedermeyer To: Tuomo Valkonen Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [poll] Is the megafreeze development model broken? Message-ID: <20071112233955.GA25059@citd.de> References: <20071112152057.GJ9771@stusta.de> <47387BB5.4090908@smsglobal.net> <20071112171456.GN9771@stusta.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 12.11.2007 17:18, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: > On 2007-11-12, Adrian Bunk wrote: > > Geeks like you and me want the latest software > > (I'm using Debian unstable/testing). > > > > But most users want a Linux installation that simply works - and this > > includes all software on the system at all times. > > I'm not in either category. I want a truly stable (as in "quality", not > as in "static" as the distros use the term) base system that simply > works, but I want to follow certain interesting software more closely. That's the problem(tm). Contrary to Closed Source Software all(!) OSS-Software is interdependent. There is no "Stand-Alone"-Software. There is always at least "libc". (Scripts depend on a script-interpreter, which in turn depends at least on libc, so there is nothing(tm) that doesn't depend on libc) Where is not uncommon for Closed Source Software to not have external dependencies or to bring along it's dependent librarys. e.g. (On Debian sid, *) "kdebase" has a nice little total dependency-list of only 254 packages. or "openoffice.org" just 265 dependent packages. "gimp" comes with light backage, only 146 packages. Not to speak about such nice little (meta-)packages like "kde" or "gnome" that are 649 and 684 packages. All that interdependency form a nice little (:-) web. (Sometimes called the dependency hell) What i want to say is this: You can't say that you only want to update a specific region of your web, at least not without the risk of ripping your web here and there. I'm using Linux since 1995, i can life with it's problems and i like Linux more that ever. :-) And despite me always using the latest kernel and Debian SID/unstable for the past few years, for home & work, i have neven been badly burned. Not that there weren't a few bruises here and there. There is nothing like a fried X for breakfast. (Which Debian managed at least 2 or 3 times in the past years) ;-) *: apt-rdepends <(meta)packagename> | grep " Depends" | cut -d '(' -f0,1 | perl -pe 's/ +$//' | sort | uniq | wc -l e.g. apt-rdepends kde | grep " Depends" | cut -d '(' -f0,1 | sort | perl -pe 's/ +$//' | uniq | wc -l Bis denn -- Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous.