From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1759771AbYARMSd (ORCPT ); Fri, 18 Jan 2008 07:18:33 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1755201AbYARMS0 (ORCPT ); Fri, 18 Jan 2008 07:18:26 -0500 Received: from mx2.mail.elte.hu ([157.181.151.9]:54336 "EHLO mx2.mail.elte.hu" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1754226AbYARMSZ (ORCPT ); Fri, 18 Jan 2008 07:18:25 -0500 Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:18:03 +0100 From: Ingo Molnar To: Andrew Morton Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Zan Lynx , Thomas Gleixner , Len Brown , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: echo mem > /sys/power/state Message-ID: <20080118121803.GF11044@elte.hu> References: <20080116222445.6f7ff66e.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <1200591411.34145.4.camel@localhost> <20080117111355.29554f38.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <200801172238.17176.rjw@sisk.pl> <20080118083610.GA19792@elte.hu> <20080118004725.dcd132ee.akpm@linux-foundation.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080118004725.dcd132ee.akpm@linux-foundation.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-ELTE-VirusStatus: clean X-ELTE-SpamScore: -1.5 X-ELTE-SpamLevel: X-ELTE-SpamCheck: no X-ELTE-SpamVersion: ELTE 2.0 X-ELTE-SpamCheck-Details: score=-1.5 required=5.9 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=no SpamAssassin version=3.2.3 -1.5 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org * Andrew Morton wrote: > > (it doesnt matter if graphics does not resume fine - at least for my > > tests) > > > > kprobes had similar problems and it now has a few simple smoke-tests > > - which i just saw trigger on a patch that i did not notice would > > break kprobes. I think this should be done for all functionality > > that is not regularly triggered by a normal distro bootup (and which > > is easy to overlook in testing). > > Seeing as we're so lame about being able to distribute userspace > stuff: create a shell script in /proc/rc.kernel and start teaching > initscripts to run it. Then we can modify it at will. would be fine to me. The problem isnt just distribution and the tests getting out of sync with the kernel (and its capabilities enabled in the .config, etc.), the other problem is unintrusive testing: i for example use unmodified images of various distributions, with only a new bzImage plopped in. That is an intentionally minimal impact test vector, any userspace side changes are discouraged. And that's how many people test new kernels, they just plop it in. The moment we require any userlevel changes, the testing barrier increases significantly. [ and a Friday rant: that's why the objection against my make-relatime-actually-useful-to-people patch is so stupid, shortsighted, self-defeating and misplaced. The "Dont put policy into the kernel, use a new mount option and update your /etc/fstab" stupidity that people have been repeating for 10 years without thinking about it is a move that scares away 90% of our testers and 99% of the distros. See: http://people.redhat.com/mingo/relatime-patches/improve-relatime.patch Trivial improvement, it's 6 months and still not upstream. We are just so good at shooting in our feet by creating artificial barriers and making it as hard as possible for people to actually use our kernel features ;-) ] Ingo