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From: Daniel Phillips <phillips@phunq.net>
To: david@lang.hm
Cc: David Newall <davidn@davidnewall.com>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Ramback: faster than a speeding bullet
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:52:57 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200803162252.58274.phillips@phunq.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.00.0803162052160.14887@asgard.lang.hm>

On Sunday 16 March 2008 20:59, david@lang.hm wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> > On Sunday 16 March 2008 18:31, David Newall wrote:
> >> Daniel Phillips wrote:
> >>> The UPS provides a guarantee of commit to stable storage.  No amount of
> >>> FUD will change that.
> >>
> >> What about system crashes?  They guarantee that data will be lost.  I
> >
> > Not if it is mirrored and replicated.  Also nice if crashes are very
> > rare, which they are unless you work at it.
> 
> if you are depending on replication over the network you have just limited 
> your throughput to your network speed and latency.

Replication does not work that way.  On each replication cycle, the
differences between the most recent two volume snapshots go over the
network.  This strategy has the nice effect of consolidating rewrites.
There are also excellent delta compression opportunities.

In the worst case, with insufficient bandwidth for the churn rate of
the volume, replication rate increases to the time for replicating the
full volume.  Again, at worst, this would require extra storage for the
snapshot to be replicated equivalent to the original volume size, so
that the primary volume is not forced to wait synchronously for a
replication cycle to complete.

Mirroring on the other hand, makes a realtime copy of a volume, that is
never out of date.

I hope this helps.

> on an enterprise level  
> machine the network can frequently be significantly slower than the disk 
> array that you are so frantic to avoid waiting for.

Frantic... your word.  Designing for dependably high transaction rates
requires a different mode of thinking that some traditionalists seem to
be having some trouble with.

Daniel

  reply	other threads:[~2008-03-17  5:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 153+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-03-10  6:46 [ANNOUNCE] Ramback: faster than a speeding bullet Daniel Phillips
2008-03-10  7:51 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2008-03-10  8:23   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-10  9:37     ` Alan Cox
2008-03-10 21:03       ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2008-03-11 11:14         ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-11 11:23           ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2008-03-11 11:50             ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-11 17:26               ` Chris Friesen
2008-03-11 19:56                 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-11 20:53                   ` Willy Tarreau
2008-03-12  8:17                     ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-12 14:41                       ` Mike Snitzer
2008-03-13 20:34                       ` Rik van Riel
2008-03-14  2:20                         ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-11 21:56               ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2008-03-11 23:02                 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-12 13:25                   ` Benny Amorsen
2008-03-12 13:30                     ` Alan Cox
2008-03-13 15:29                       ` Benny Amorsen
2008-03-14  9:30                       ` Pavel Machek
2008-03-14 11:07                         ` Ric Wheeler
2008-03-14 11:41                           ` Benny Amorsen
2008-03-14 12:12                             ` Ric Wheeler
2008-03-14 12:56                             ` Theodore Tso
2008-03-14 15:47                               ` Ric Wheeler
2008-03-14 16:49                                 ` Theodore Tso
2008-03-14 17:04                                   ` Ric Wheeler
2008-03-14 18:03                                   ` david
2008-03-14 19:03                                 ` writeback cache dangers " Pavel Machek
2008-03-14 19:29                                   ` Theodore Tso
2008-03-13  9:15                   ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2008-03-11 23:30                 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13 13:27                 ` Ric Wheeler
2008-03-13 19:02                   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13 19:12                     ` Ric Wheeler
2008-03-13 19:38                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-11  4:23       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-10  9:22 ` Alan Cox
2008-03-10 19:01   ` Rik van Riel
2008-03-11  4:28     ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-11  3:50   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-11 13:32     ` Artur Skawina
2008-03-11 14:31       ` Artur Skawina
2008-03-12 13:11     ` Alan Cox
2008-03-12 17:29       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-12 18:11         ` Chris Friesen
2008-03-12 22:56           ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13  5:45             ` David Newall
2008-03-13  6:17               ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13  6:30                 ` David Newall
2008-03-13  6:50                   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13  7:05                     ` David Newall
2008-03-13  7:13                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-15 13:32                     ` Pavel Machek
2008-03-15 20:22                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-15 21:33                         ` Pavel Machek
2008-03-15 21:47                           ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13  6:32                 ` david
2008-03-13  7:12                   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13  7:55                     ` david
2008-03-13  8:06                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13  8:39                         ` david
2008-03-13  9:16                           ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13 16:25                             ` david
2008-03-13 19:32                               ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13 19:50                                 ` David Newall
2008-03-13 20:03                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-14 17:53                                     ` Jeff Moyer
2008-03-15 20:26                                     ` Pavel Machek
2008-03-15 20:40                                       ` Mike Snitzer
2008-03-15 21:05                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-15 20:18                             ` Pavel Machek
2008-03-15 20:51                               ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13  9:49                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13  5:39         ` David Newall
2008-03-13  6:14           ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13 13:22             ` Alan Cox
2008-03-13 19:14               ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-13 20:27                 ` Rik van Riel
2008-03-14  2:23                   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-14  5:22                     ` David Newall
2008-03-14  5:42                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-14 14:00                     ` John Stoffel
2008-03-15 20:59                 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-03-15 20:56                   ` Alan Cox
2008-03-15 21:25                     ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-15 21:08                       ` Alan Cox
2008-03-15 21:51                         ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-15 21:17                   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-15 21:03                     ` Alan Cox
2008-03-15 22:00                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-15 23:05                         ` Alan Cox
2008-03-16 21:57                           ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-16 21:55                             ` Alan Cox
2008-03-16 22:36                               ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-16 22:46                                 ` Alan Cox
2008-03-16 23:39                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-17 11:53                                     ` Alan Cox
2008-03-17  1:31                             ` David Newall
2008-03-17  2:42                               ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-17  3:59                                 ` david
2008-03-17  5:52                                   ` Daniel Phillips [this message]
2008-03-17  6:49                                     ` david
2008-03-17  8:16                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-17 10:39                                         ` Alan Cox
2008-03-17 13:52                                         ` Ric Wheeler
2008-03-17 14:42                                         ` david
2008-03-17 17:23                                           ` david
2008-03-17 17:30                                             ` Willy Tarreau
     [not found]                                             ` <200803180233.10156.phillips@phunq.net>
2008-03-18 13:03                                               ` David Newall
2008-03-18 16:36                                                 ` david
2008-03-31 11:40                                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-04-01  0:28                                                     ` david
2008-04-01  4:07                                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-04-01  4:23                                                         ` david
2008-04-01  6:08                                                           ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-18 13:57                                               ` Alan Cox
2008-03-31 11:39                                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-17  7:14                                     ` David Newall
2008-03-17  8:25                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-17 18:56                                         ` David Newall
2008-03-23  9:33                                         ` Pavel Machek
2008-03-23 20:44                                           ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-15 21:54                     ` Willy Tarreau
2008-03-15 22:33                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-15 23:22                         ` david
2008-03-15 23:57                           ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-03-15 23:22                         ` Willy Tarreau
2008-03-16  3:33                           ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-16  5:24                             ` David Newall
2008-03-16 12:49                               ` Ingo Oeser
2008-03-16  6:56                             ` Willy Tarreau
2008-03-16 22:12                               ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-03-16 13:14                             ` Alan Cox
2008-03-16 19:04                               ` Theodore Tso
2008-03-16 22:02                             ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-03-15 23:18                     ` Bernd Eckenfels
2008-03-16  5:42                     ` David Newall
2008-03-16 20:48                       ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-16 22:15                       ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-03-16 22:38                         ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-16 23:08                           ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-03-16 23:43                             ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-10 14:51 ` Artur Skawina
2008-03-10 18:49 ` Chris Snook
2008-03-11  5:06 ` Greg KH
2008-03-11  5:22   ` Daniel Phillips
2008-03-11  5:48     ` david
2008-03-11  6:27     ` Greg KH
2008-03-12 12:01 ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-03-12 17:27   ` Daniel Phillips
     [not found] <OFA00954A4.45F32CA2-ON8025740B.005D7B40-8025740B.005EECA6@sophos.com>
2008-03-13 19:34 ` Daniel Phillips

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