Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Alexia Death]

Hello. 

Ive come across a very annoying problem with these cards and the fat 
filesystem driver.

I recently bought 2 2GB Silicon Power SD cards for my camera(they were the 
smallest available in the store and had reasonable price). Camera was quite 
happy with them but I ran unexpectedly into trouble when trying to put the 
images to my Linux PC. 

It failed to read the cards and seemed to assume that my 2GB cards are 
actually 4GB O_o. I put one card back in to the camera and it was fine. I put 
the card in my photobank and it had no problem coping the images to its 
internal disk. 

Well, that was lame. Simple dumb devices can read the cards but not Linux. So 
I looked into dmesg to see whats up.

Heres what I saw:

[1193601.137141] sd 2:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI disk
[1193601.137256] sd 2:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0
[1193601.156992] sd 2:0:0:1: [sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk
[1193601.157115] sd 2:0:0:1: Attached scsi generic sg3 type 0
[1193601.198450] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] 1992704 1024-byte hardware sectors (2041 
MB)
[1193601.206767] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Write Protect is off
[1193601.206785] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Mode Sense: 03 00 00 00
[1193601.206793] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Assuming drive cache: write through
[1193601.227218] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] 1992704 1024-byte hardware sectors (2041 
MB)
[1193601.236730] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Write Protect is off
[1193601.236745] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Mode Sense: 03 00 00 00
[1193601.236752] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Assuming drive cache: write through
[1193601.236768]  sdd: sdd1
[1193601.248543]  sdd: p1 exceeds device capacity
[1193601.248740] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Attached SCSI removable disk
[1193601.248853] sd 2:0:0:2: Attached scsi generic sg4 type 0
[1193601.258517] sd 2:0:0:3: [sde] Attached SCSI removable disk
[1193601.258639] sd 2:0:0:3: Attached scsi generic sg5 type 0
[1193602.633223] attempt to access beyond end of device
[1193602.633239] sdd: rw=0, want=7970672, limit=3985408
[1193602.633248] Buffer I/O error on device sdd1, logical block 3985088
[1193602.633260] attempt to access beyond end of device
[1193602.633266] sdd: rw=0, want=7970674, limit=3985408
[1193602.633272] Buffer I/O error on device sdd1, logical block 3985089

,,, and so on.

Trying to mount it results in:
[1194411.241063] FAT: logical sector size too small for device (logical sector 
size = 512)

As I understand the above, my cards report hardware sector size 1024-bytes and 
FAT logical block size of 512 but the FAT driver insists on using the 
hardware block size over the logical one... witch obviously results in 
failure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#Compatibility_issues_with_2_GB_and_larger_cards
tells me that this is the result of a hack due to the nature of 2GB cards.

Are there any plans to make 2GB SD cards work? I doubt I'm the only one with 
such 2GB SD cards(and a camera) and Id be royally screwed right about now if 
I did not have my photobank and an option to use it as a copy over point...

--
Best, Alexia

PS. Please CC me, I am not subscribed... 

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Alan Cox]

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#Compatibility_issues_with_2_GB_and_larger_cards
> tells me that this is the result of a hack due to the nature of 2GB cards.
> 
> Are there any plans to make 2GB SD cards work? I doubt I'm the only one with 
> such 2GB SD cards(and a camera) and Id be royally screwed right about now if 
> I did not have my photobank and an option to use it as a copy over point...

Mounting it with -o loop ought to work around this if the problem is
purely media block size. That is probably the right answer anyway but the
solution ought to be managed more elegantly for the user.

Alan

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Alexia Death]

On Sunday 13 April 2008 23:42:11 Alan Cox wrote:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#Compatibility_issues_wit
> >h_2_GB_and_larger_cards tells me that this is the result of a hack due to
> > the nature of 2GB cards.
> >
> > Are there any plans to make 2GB SD cards work? I doubt I'm the only one
> > with such 2GB SD cards(and a camera) and Id be royally screwed right
> > about now if I did not have my photobank and an option to use it as a
> > copy over point...
>
> Mounting it with -o loop ought to work around this if the problem is
> purely media block size. That is probably the right answer anyway but the
> solution ought to be managed more elegantly for the user.

It seems the issue is a bit more complicated. Tried it with -o loop. It did 
mount but the contents was binary garbage... Strangely different binary 
garbage at each mount...  

--
Best,
Alexia

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Arnd Bergmann]

On Sunday 13 April 2008, Alexia Death wrote:
> [1193601.236730] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Write Protect is off
> [1193601.236745] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Mode Sense: 03 00 00 00
> [1193601.236752] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Assuming drive cache: write through
> [1193601.236768]  sdd: sdd1
> [1193601.248543]  sdd: p1 exceeds device capacity
> [1193601.248740] sd 2:0:0:2: [sdd] Attached SCSI removable disk
> [1193601.248853] sd 2:0:0:2: Attached scsi generic sg4 type 0
> [1193601.258517] sd 2:0:0:3: [sde] Attached SCSI removable disk
> [1193601.258639] sd 2:0:0:3: Attached scsi generic sg5 type 0

You are apparently using a SCSI device, so I assume it is a USB
based card reader, not a directly attached SD/MMC reader.

My guess is that the problem is the way that the card is presented
to the USB mass storage driver by the reader. Generally, there is
no problem with 2GB SD cards, so it would be good if you can try
a different card reader with your cards.

Also, please supply the "lsusb -v" output for the card reader.

	Arnd <><

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Alexia Death]

On Monday 14 April 2008 03:45:32 you wrote:
> You are apparently using a SCSI device, so I assume it is a USB
> based card reader, not a directly attached SD/MMC reader.
You are correct.

> My guess is that the problem is the way that the card is presented
> to the USB mass storage driver by the reader. 
Yes, Ive come to a conclusion that because reader does not do anything about 
the speciality of the 2GB cards they wont be readable because Linux usb 
storage does not know about them either.

> Generally, there is no problem with 2GB SD cards,
It seems that in case of non-USB card readers, ie the ones built-in to laptops 
the speciality is taken care of by the reader driver...

> so it would be good if you can try a different card reader with your cards.
I have no different reader to try but I did try connecting the camera. It 
works.
[1249166.105850] scsi 6:0:0:0: Direct-Access     PENTAX   DIGITAL_CAMERA   
1.20 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0
[1249166.117440] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] 3985409 512-byte hardware sectors (2041 MB)
[1249166.122416] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
[1249166.122431] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 0a 0a 00 01
[1249166.122438] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
[1249166.137400] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] 3985409 512-byte hardware sectors (2041 MB)
[1249166.142390] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
[1249166.142406] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 0a 0a 00 01
[1249166.142412] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
[1249166.142430]  sdb: sdb1
[1249166.176608] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk
[1249166.176735] sd 6:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0

As you can see the camera rewrites the hw sectors description and presents it 
quite differently than the card presents itself. Strangely enough my 
cardreader/photobank itself has no problem copying from these cards but still 
presents the cards to the pc "as is".

On Monday 14 April 2008 02:28:13 Gene Heskett wrote:
> I ask because my own camera with much smaller cards, has a similar problem,
> and everything Just Works(TM) if I plug the usb cable directly into the
> camera and mount it as a vfat file system.  I haven't had the memory card
> out of my camera in a couple of years.
That is interesting. I did not know there could be problems with smaller 
cards.  However keeping the cards in the camera is not  solution for me. I 
have a card reader to avoid tying the camera down for the copy duration.

On Monday 14 April 2008 03:45:32 you wrote:
> Also, please supply the "lsusb -v" output for the card reader.
My cardreader/photobank is of pretty average sort:

Bus 001 Device 015: ID 0424:223a Standard Microsystems Corp. 8-in-1 Card 
Reader
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x0424 Standard Microsystems Corp.
  idProduct          0x223a 8-in-1 Card Reader
  bcdDevice            2.23
  iManufacturer           1 DCB
  iProduct                2     DCB201
  iSerial                 3 000111111111
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength           39
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          0
    bmAttributes         0x80
      (Bus Powered)
    MaxPower               96mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass         8 Mass Storage
      bInterfaceSubClass      6 SCSI
      bInterfaceProtocol     80 Bulk (Zip)
      iInterface              0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x02  EP 2 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
        ** UNRECOGNIZED:  07 21 07 e8 03 fe ff
Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
  bLength                10
  bDescriptorType         6
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  bNumConfigurations      1
Device Status:     0x0000
  (Bus Powered)

Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               1.10
  bDeviceClass            9 Hub
  bDeviceSubClass         0 Unused
  bDeviceProtocol         0 Full speed (or root) hub
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x0000
  idProduct          0x0000
  bcdDevice            2.06
  iManufacturer           3 Linux 2.6.24-8-generic uhci_hcd
  iProduct                2 UHCI Host Controller
  iSerial                 1 0000:00:1d.0
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength           25
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          0
    bmAttributes         0xe0
      Self Powered
      Remote Wakeup
    MaxPower                0mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         9 Hub
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 Unused
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 Full speed (or root) hub
      iInterface              0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0002  1x 2 bytes
        bInterval             255
Hub Descriptor:
  bLength               9
  bDescriptorType      41
  nNbrPorts             2
  wHubCharacteristic 0x000a
    No power switching (usb 1.0)
    Per-port overcurrent protection
  bPwrOn2PwrGood        1 * 2 milli seconds
  bHubContrCurrent      0 milli Ampere
  DeviceRemovable    0x00
  PortPwrCtrlMask    0xff
 Hub Port Status:
   Port 1: 0000.0103 power enable connect
   Port 2: 0000.0100 power
Device Status:     0x0003
  Self Powered
  Remote Wakeup Enabled

RE: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Alexia Death]

It seems  this issue is a "wont fix" even tho its quite common since its a
reader problem. I finally found this today:
http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-usb-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg56667.h
tml The reader needs to be aware of the hack these SD cards do to work and
apparently this and many other simpler ones are not.

Thanks for listening,
Alexia.

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Arnd Bergmann]

On Monday 14 April 2008, Alexia Death wrote:
> On Monday 14 April 2008 03:45:32 you wrote:
>
> > My guess is that the problem is the way that the card is presented
> > to the USB mass storage driver by the reader. 
> Yes, Ive come to a conclusion that because reader does not do anything about 
> the speciality of the 2GB cards they wont be readable because Linux usb 
> storage does not know about them either.
>
> > Generally, there is no problem with 2GB SD cards,
> It seems that in case of non-USB card readers, ie the ones built-in to laptops 
> the speciality is taken care of by the reader driver...

Did you find any code in there that made you think so? Generally, the mmc
layer doesn't do much about the layout of the cards but merely represents
what is there.

On the contrary, the USB card readers go through a lot of effort to
make the card look like a SCSI device, and many of these implementations
are buggy in some way. SD cards are defined to have 512 byte sectors, while
USB mass storage can theoretically have a different sector size. Of course
any other size than 512 bytes is likely to break some code, which you have
experienced.

Note that Linux has another driver for USB mass storage, the "ub" block
driver which does not go through the SCSI software layer. It would be good
if you could check whether that has the same problem. Also, it might be
interesting to see if another operating system has the same problem
with the combination of your card and reader.

If it works on another OS, it's probably fixable on Linux, but the
effort may be significant.

> > so it would be good if you can try a different card reader with your cards.
> I have no different reader to try but I did try connecting the camera. It 
> works.
> [1249166.105850] scsi 6:0:0:0: Direct-Access     PENTAX   DIGITAL_CAMERA   
> 1.20 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0
> [1249166.117440] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] 3985409 512-byte hardware sectors (2041 MB)
> [1249166.122416] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
> [1249166.122431] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 0a 0a 00 01
> [1249166.122438] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
> [1249166.137400] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] 3985409 512-byte hardware sectors (2041 MB)
> [1249166.142390] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
> [1249166.142406] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 0a 0a 00 01
> [1249166.142412] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
> [1249166.142430]  sdb: sdb1
> [1249166.176608] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk
> [1249166.176735] sd 6:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0
> 
> As you can see the camera rewrites the hw sectors description and presents it 
> quite differently than the card presents itself. Strangely enough my 
> cardreader/photobank itself has no problem copying from these cards but still 
> presents the cards to the pc "as is".

The camera is just another implementation of a USB mass storage device on
top of an SD card. My guess remains that this one works correctly, while
your standalone reader has a quirk that prevents it from being used on Linux.

	Arnd <><

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Wander Winkelhorst]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Alexia Death <alexiadeath@gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems  this issue is a "wont fix" even tho its quite common since its a
>  reader problem.

There are a *LOT* of cardreaders that have a problem with larger cards.
See the table on http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/special-sd.html and
notice the enormous amount of red colored cells (meaning failure)

Read the rest of http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/ for a lot more
info about cards and card readers.

Wander.

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[H. Peter Anvin]

Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> 
> On the contrary, the USB card readers go through a lot of effort to
> make the card look like a SCSI device, and many of these implementations
> are buggy in some way. SD cards are defined to have 512 byte sectors, while
> USB mass storage can theoretically have a different sector size. Of course
> any other size than 512 bytes is likely to break some code, which you have
> experienced.
> 

Actually, I believe 2 GB (non-SDHC) *only* have 1024 byte sectors.

	-hpa

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Arnd Bergmann]

On Monday 14 April 2008, H. Peter Anvin wrote:

> Actually, I believe 2 GB (non-SDHC) *only* have 1024 byte sectors.
> 

Right, I found out the same after reading the page pointed out by Wander,
and the older specifications. SD 2.0 SDHC requires 512 byte sectors now, but
the older standard is still used for 2GB cards.

Most USB card readers seem to translate the native sector size to 512 byte
sectors internally, and we've seen that the linux SCSI disk driver together
with the USB mass storage driver doesn't cope well with the device
Alexia is using.

	Arnd <><

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 07:49:56AM +0300, Alexia Death wrote:
> Yes, Ive come to a conclusion that because reader does not do anything about 
> the speciality of the 2GB cards they wont be readable because Linux usb 
> storage does not know about them either.

The reader in my wife's old laptop (Compaq R3240) would not work with
1gB or 2GB cards, but would work with 512MB and smaller.  It would
detect the card but have random contents displayed and certainly
wouldn't read.  An SD reader in a USB printer on the other hand
connected to the same machine read all the cards fine.  There certainly
are some misdesigned SD readers out there that fail with larger cards
due to having made invalid assumptions.

Sounds like that particular readers is junk and belongs in the trash. :)

-- 
Len Sorensen

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Daniel Barkalow]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008, H. Peter Anvin wrote:

> Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > 
> > On the contrary, the USB card readers go through a lot of effort to
> > make the card look like a SCSI device, and many of these implementations
> > are buggy in some way. SD cards are defined to have 512 byte sectors, while
> > USB mass storage can theoretically have a different sector size. Of course
> > any other size than 512 bytes is likely to break some code, which you have
> > experienced.
> > 
> 
> Actually, I believe 2 GB (non-SDHC) *only* have 1024 byte sectors.

The most easily available SD documentation is the SanDisk product manual 
(1.9) and the cards it documents only support 512-byte blocks ("The 
default block length is as specified in the CSD (512 bytes). A set block 
length of less than 512 bytes will cause a write error. The only valid set 
block length is 512 bytes. CMD16 is not manditory if the default is 
accepted.")

Somewhat unsurprisingly, not all manufacturers took into account the 
possibility that a card would use a different block size than what all of 
the cards of the time used.

	-Daniel
*This .sig left intentionally blank*

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[H. Peter Anvin]

Daniel Barkalow wrote:
> 
> Somewhat unsurprisingly, not all manufacturers took into account the 
> possibility that a card would use a different block size than what all of 
> the cards of the time used.
> 

What's really kind of pathetic is that designed, in 2000, a that broke 
at 1 GB...

	-hpa

Re: Problem: non-SDHC 2GB SD cards are unreadable

[Roger Heflin]

H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> Daniel Barkalow wrote:
>>
>> Somewhat unsurprisingly, not all manufacturers took into account the 
>> possibility that a card would use a different block size than what all 
>> of the cards of the time used.
>>
> 
> What's really kind of pathetic is that designed, in 2000, a that broke 
> at 1 GB...
> 
>     -hpa

I have used 2 different 2GB cards, one works with a reader that it came with, 
the other won't work with the reader the other card came with, I did not try the 
switch the other way, but it appears that the cheap readers included with the 
cards are not interchangeable as they cut too many corners in the testing to 
make them nice and cheap.

                                 Roger