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From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: david@lang.hm, Marcel Holtmann <marcel@holtmann.org>,
	David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>,
	jeff@garzik.org, arjan@infradead.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org,
	alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [GIT *] Allow request_firmware() to be satisfied from in-kernel, use it in more drivers.
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 00:20:48 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200807160020.49496.elendil@planet.nl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0807151436400.2867@woody.linux-foundation.org>

On Tuesday 15 July 2008, you wrote:
> Why is it suddenly so important that a kernel be 'zero impact' for that
> module case, when it's never been zero impact for that case before? You
> had to rewrite the initrd to begin with, but now you're not willing to
> do it again, just because you have to rewrite it slightly
> _differently_?

Because in most cases users do not write and maintain the scripts used to 
build custom kernels themselves. They use (huge and way too) tools like 
Debian's 'make-kpkg' for that.

Because users may want to build a custom 2.6.27 in for example a Debian 
Etch environment using the make-kpkg package that is available in that 
release of Debian. Or even a Debian Lenny environment (Lenny is about to 
be frozen so is very unlikely to include whatever may be needed for 
this).

Why is it good to extend the lifetime of the i386 and amd64 symlinks for 
x86 images by an extra few years so that older versions of kernel 
packaging tools - like make-kpkg - don't break, but is breaking the exact 
same tools with this firmware change suddenly OK?

Users _want_ to be able to build new kernels in older environments. Why 
take that option away from them? Why force them through the pain of 
partial upgrades of their userspace if it can so easily be avoided?

>From my PoV adding this option is a no-brainer: if Jeff is willing to do 
the work, then what harm can it do? The benefits to me are obvious.
I really don't get what you have against it.

Cheers,
FJP

P.S. Sorry to keep coming up with Debian examples, but that's the 
environment I know.

  reply	other threads:[~2008-07-15 22:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 227+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-07-14 23:23 [GIT *] Allow request_firmware() to be satisfied from in-kernel, use it in more drivers David Woodhouse
2008-07-14 23:41 ` Andrew Morton
2008-07-14 23:47   ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-14 23:53     ` Yinghai Lu
2008-07-15  0:23       ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  0:31         ` Yinghai Lu
2008-07-15  0:50           ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  1:08             ` Yinghai Lu
2008-07-15  7:50             ` Ingo Molnar
2008-07-15  0:50         ` Yinghai Lu
2008-07-15  0:52           ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  0:53             ` Yinghai Lu
2008-07-15  1:13           ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 20:45     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-07-15 20:49       ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 20:57         ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 23:45           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-07-16  7:01         ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-16 21:28           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-07-16 22:42             ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-17 20:42               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-07-17 21:25                 ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-17 22:25                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-07-18  4:15                 ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-14 23:59   ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-07-15  0:06     ` david
2008-07-15  0:33       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  0:51         ` david
2008-07-15  1:02           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  1:18             ` david
2008-07-15  2:08               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  2:47                 ` david
2008-07-15  7:57                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 15:04                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 17:01                     ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 17:09                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 17:30                         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 17:41                           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 17:45                             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 18:11                               ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 18:21                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 18:33                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 18:20                             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 18:25                               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 18:30                                 ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 20:00                                   ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 20:06                                     ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 20:30                                       ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 21:24                                       ` david
2008-07-15 18:44                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 18:53                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 19:09                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 19:18                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 18:58                                   ` Theodore Tso
2008-07-15 19:14                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 19:19                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 19:23                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 21:14                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 21:24                                           ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 21:47                                             ` David Miller
2008-07-15 22:42                                               ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 22:45                                                 ` David Miller
2008-07-15 23:05                                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 21:24                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 21:39                                             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 22:12                                               ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 22:46                                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-16  0:55                                                 ` Sven-Haegar Koch
2008-07-16  8:02                                                   ` Gabor Gombas
2008-07-16  4:55                                       ` Rene Herman
2008-07-15 19:27                                     ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  1:52           ` David Miller
2008-07-15  2:23             ` Rene Herman
2008-07-15  2:24               ` David Miller
2008-07-15  2:32                 ` Rene Herman
2008-07-15  2:39                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  2:45                   ` David Miller
2008-07-15  4:56                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-07-15  5:09                       ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  5:45                         ` david
2008-07-15  6:03                           ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  6:23                             ` Oliver Neukum
2008-07-15 14:40                               ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 16:52                                 ` Oliver Neukum
2008-07-15 18:09                                   ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  5:32                       ` Rene Herman
2008-07-15  3:06                   ` Rene Herman
2008-07-15 23:33                   ` Alexandre Oliva
2008-07-15  5:15                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2008-07-15  5:30                   ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  1:50         ` David Miller
2008-07-15  2:54           ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  5:34             ` david
2008-07-15  0:36       ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  0:40         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  0:44           ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  5:05             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2008-07-15  2:12         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15  2:17           ` David Miller
2008-07-15  2:23             ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  2:52               ` david
2008-07-15  4:45               ` Willy Tarreau
2008-07-15  1:54     ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15  2:13       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  2:19         ` David Miller
2008-07-15  2:22         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15  2:33           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  2:40             ` David Miller
2008-07-15  2:51               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  3:05                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15  4:58                 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-07-15 14:55                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 15:09                     ` david
2008-07-15 16:01                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 16:21                         ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 17:56                         ` david
2008-07-15 17:35                     ` Willy Tarreau
2008-07-15 17:44                       ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  3:15             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15  3:29               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  5:06                 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-07-15  5:32                   ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  5:36                     ` Willy Tarreau
2008-07-15  5:37                     ` david
2008-07-16  0:10                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2008-07-16  0:26                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15  7:21                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15  7:36                   ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  8:07                     ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 15:10                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 16:53                         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 17:16                         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 17:25                           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 17:54                             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15  8:14                     ` Ingo Molnar
2008-07-15  8:24                       ` Ingo Molnar
2008-07-15 12:42                   ` Alan Cox
2008-07-17 21:31                     ` David Miller
2008-07-15  2:48           ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15  5:12             ` Willy Tarreau
2008-07-15 15:57         ` Frans Pop
2008-07-15 16:04           ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-07-15 16:24             ` Frans Pop
2008-07-15 16:36             ` Frans Pop
2008-07-15 17:33               ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-07-15 17:57                 ` Frans Pop
2008-07-15 16:15           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 16:33             ` david
2008-07-15 16:41               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 17:25                 ` Frans Pop
2008-07-15 17:36                 ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 19:22                 ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 16:35             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 16:48               ` Frans Pop
2008-07-15 17:07                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 19:26               ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 16:37             ` Frans Pop
2008-07-15 18:05           ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-07-15 18:14             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 18:24               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 18:37                 ` Chris Friesen
2008-07-15 18:55                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 19:02                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 19:41                     ` david
2008-07-15 19:59                     ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 20:15                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 20:55                         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 23:02                           ` Dave Jones
2008-07-15 23:46                             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-16  0:00                               ` Dave Jones
2008-07-16  0:10                           ` Chris Adams
2008-07-16  6:04                             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 19:07                   ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 19:29                 ` Peter T. Breuer
2008-07-15 18:20             ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 19:13               ` Frans Pop
2008-07-15 19:39             ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 19:20           ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 19:27             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 19:31               ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 19:38                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 19:44                   ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 22:19                     ` Adrian Bunk
2008-07-15 19:32               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 19:36               ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 19:49                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 19:54                   ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 20:07                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 20:21                       ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 20:30                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 20:33                         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 21:17                         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 20:26                       ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 20:47                         ` Willy Tarreau
2008-07-15 21:24                           ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-16 22:05                         ` Diego Calleja
2008-07-15 21:27                       ` david
2008-07-15 21:40                         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-15 21:43                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 22:20                           ` Frans Pop [this message]
2008-07-15 22:24                           ` david
2008-07-15 22:26                             ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 22:50                               ` david
2008-07-15 23:42                             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-16  0:22                               ` Frans Pop
2008-07-16  0:28                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-16  0:43                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-16  1:11                                     ` Prosaic firmware issues Alexey Dobriyan
2008-07-16  1:45                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-16  5:54                                         ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-16 14:19                                           ` Alexey Dobriyan
2008-07-16  4:42                                     ` [GIT *] Allow request_firmware() to be satisfied from in-kernel, use it in more drivers Willy Tarreau
2008-09-12 20:59                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2008-09-12 21:43                                         ` Willy Tarreau
2008-07-16  0:51                               ` Theodore Tso
2008-07-16  1:36                                 ` Dave Jones
2008-07-16  2:39                                   ` Theodore Tso
2008-07-16  3:07                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2008-07-16  9:09                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-07-15 19:57                   ` David Woodhouse
2008-07-15 20:10                     ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 20:17                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-07-15 20:25                         ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15 23:04                     ` Dave Jones
2008-07-15  1:44   ` David Miller
2008-07-15  9:57     ` Marcel Holtmann
2008-07-15  1:45 ` Jeff Garzik
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     [not found] ` <aPIje-4ST-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <aPV6W-3jN-41@gated-at.bofh.it>
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     [not found]             ` <aPY4D-G7-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]               ` <aPZ0H-2ls-21@gated-at.bofh.it>

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