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* idle USB harddrive spins up with 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8
@ 2008-12-09 23:12 CSights
  2008-12-10 21:32 ` Andrew Morton
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: CSights @ 2008-12-09 23:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel

Hi LKML,
	I've got an IDE harddrive in a USB external enclosure. It is /dev/sda.
	When I'm compiling the kernel or doing other things on /dev/hda1 the USB 
harddrive (sda1) will spin-up or not spin-down.  This happens with kernel 
versions 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8.
	Also, I'm using laptop-mode-tools to turn on laptop mode.
	I used the "btrace" script on /dev/sda while compiling a kernel on /dev/hda1.  
While running 2.6.26.8 btrace did not output anything.  With 2.6.27.8 and 
2.6.28-rc7 a load of stuff was going on with /dev/sda.
	I don't know what it means, but it is probably what is causing the harddrive 
to spin up. :)  Hopefully someone besides me will consider this 
a "regression".  Let me know if you need any other info.

Thanks!
	C.

Using 2.6.26.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
	did not output anything.

Using 2.6.27.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1     0.000000000  1109  A  
WS 14375 + 8 <- (8,1) 14312
Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000006705  1109  Q  
WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000043581  1109  G  
WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000065651  1109  P   
N [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000076267  1109  I   
W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000300318  1109  D   
W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000423518  1109  U   
N [kjournald] 1
Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010028373     3  C   
W 14375 + 8 [0]
Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9     3.219049689  1109  A  
WS 14383 + 8 <- (8,1) 14320
Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10     3.219058350  1109  Q  
WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11     3.219095505  1109  G  
WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12     3.219115061  1109  P   
N [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13     3.219127074  1109  I   
W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14     3.219344699  1109  D   
W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15     3.219543607  1109  U   
N [kjournald] 1
Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16     3.229477275     3  C   
W 14383 + 8 [0]
Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17     8.372429561  1109  A  
WS 14391 + 8 <- (8,1) 14328
Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18     8.372437663  1109  Q  
WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19     8.372474539  1109  G  
WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20     8.372496329  1109  P   
N [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21     8.372508063  1109  I   
W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22     8.372729320  1109  D   
W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23     8.372839669  1109  U   
N [kjournald] 1
Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24     8.382665781     3  C   
W 14391 + 8 [0]
Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       25    17.082110738  1109  A  
WS 14399 + 8 <- (8,1) 14336
Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       26    17.082119119  1109  Q  
WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       27    17.082156834  1109  G  
WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       28    17.082180859  1109  P   
N [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       29    17.082193431  1109  I   
W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       30    17.082418878  1109  D   
W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       31    17.082527831  1109  U   
N [kjournald] 1
Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       32    17.092196101     3  C   
W 14399 + 8 [0]
...etc...

Using kernel 2.6.28-rc7, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1     0.000000000  1129  A  
WS 12567 + 8 <- (8,1) 12504
Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000005587  1129  Q  
WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000038553  1129  G  
WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000061460  1129  P   
N [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000074032  1129  I   
W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000266235  1129  D   
W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000372394  1129  U   
N [kjournald] 1
Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010619230     3  C   
W 12567 + 8 [0]
Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9    41.770854333  1129  A  
WS 12575 + 8 <- (8,1) 12512
Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10    41.770862156  1129  Q  
WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11    41.770895121  1129  G  
WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12    41.770917191  1129  P   
N [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13    41.770929483  1129  I   
W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14    41.771122524  1129  D   
W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15    41.771247680  1129  U   
N [kjournald] 1
Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16    41.780654465     3  C   
W 12575 + 8 [0]
Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17    44.820030708  1129  A  
WS 12583 + 8 <- (8,1) 12520
Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18    44.820038530  1129  Q  
WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19    44.820069539  1129  G  
WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20    44.820091050  1129  P   
N [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21    44.820103622  1129  I   
W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22    44.820291914  1129  D   
W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23    44.820386898  1129  U   
N [kjournald] 1
Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24    44.830135906     3  C   
W 12583 + 8 [0]
...etc...

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: idle USB harddrive spins up with 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8
  2008-12-09 23:12 idle USB harddrive spins up with 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8 CSights
@ 2008-12-10 21:32 ` Andrew Morton
  2008-12-11 15:37   ` Alan Stern
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Morton @ 2008-12-10 21:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: CSights; +Cc: linux-kernel, linux-usb

(cc linux-usb)

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 18:12:33 -0500
CSights <csights@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Hi LKML,
> 	I've got an IDE harddrive in a USB external enclosure. It is /dev/sda.
> 	When I'm compiling the kernel or doing other things on /dev/hda1 the USB 
> harddrive (sda1) will spin-up or not spin-down.  This happens with kernel 
> versions 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8.
> 	Also, I'm using laptop-mode-tools to turn on laptop mode.
> 	I used the "btrace" script on /dev/sda while compiling a kernel on /dev/hda1.  
> While running 2.6.26.8 btrace did not output anything.  With 2.6.27.8 and 
> 2.6.28-rc7 a load of stuff was going on with /dev/sda.
> 	I don't know what it means, but it is probably what is causing the harddrive 
> to spin up. :)  Hopefully someone besides me will consider this 
> a "regression".  Let me know if you need any other info.
> 
> Thanks!
> 	C.
> 
> Using 2.6.26.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> 	did not output anything.
> 
> Using 2.6.27.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1     0.000000000  1109  A  
> WS 14375 + 8 <- (8,1) 14312
> Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000006705  1109  Q  
> WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000043581  1109  G  
> WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000065651  1109  P   
> N [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000076267  1109  I   
> W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000300318  1109  D   
> W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000423518  1109  U   
> N [kjournald] 1
> Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010028373     3  C   
> W 14375 + 8 [0]
> Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9     3.219049689  1109  A  
> WS 14383 + 8 <- (8,1) 14320
> Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10     3.219058350  1109  Q  
> WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11     3.219095505  1109  G  
> WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12     3.219115061  1109  P   
> N [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13     3.219127074  1109  I   
> W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14     3.219344699  1109  D   
> W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15     3.219543607  1109  U   
> N [kjournald] 1
> Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16     3.229477275     3  C   
> W 14383 + 8 [0]
> Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17     8.372429561  1109  A  
> WS 14391 + 8 <- (8,1) 14328
> Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18     8.372437663  1109  Q  
> WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19     8.372474539  1109  G  
> WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20     8.372496329  1109  P   
> N [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21     8.372508063  1109  I   
> W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22     8.372729320  1109  D   
> W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23     8.372839669  1109  U   
> N [kjournald] 1
> Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24     8.382665781     3  C   
> W 14391 + 8 [0]
> Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       25    17.082110738  1109  A  
> WS 14399 + 8 <- (8,1) 14336
> Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       26    17.082119119  1109  Q  
> WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       27    17.082156834  1109  G  
> WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       28    17.082180859  1109  P   
> N [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       29    17.082193431  1109  I   
> W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       30    17.082418878  1109  D   
> W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       31    17.082527831  1109  U   
> N [kjournald] 1
> Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       32    17.092196101     3  C   
> W 14399 + 8 [0]
> ...etc...
> 
> Using kernel 2.6.28-rc7, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1     0.000000000  1129  A  
> WS 12567 + 8 <- (8,1) 12504
> Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000005587  1129  Q  
> WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000038553  1129  G  
> WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000061460  1129  P   
> N [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000074032  1129  I   
> W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000266235  1129  D   
> W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000372394  1129  U   
> N [kjournald] 1
> Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010619230     3  C   
> W 12567 + 8 [0]
> Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9    41.770854333  1129  A  
> WS 12575 + 8 <- (8,1) 12512
> Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10    41.770862156  1129  Q  
> WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11    41.770895121  1129  G  
> WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12    41.770917191  1129  P   
> N [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13    41.770929483  1129  I   
> W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14    41.771122524  1129  D   
> W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15    41.771247680  1129  U   
> N [kjournald] 1
> Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16    41.780654465     3  C   
> W 12575 + 8 [0]
> Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17    44.820030708  1129  A  
> WS 12583 + 8 <- (8,1) 12520
> Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18    44.820038530  1129  Q  
> WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19    44.820069539  1129  G  
> WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20    44.820091050  1129  P   
> N [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21    44.820103622  1129  I   
> W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22    44.820291914  1129  D   
> W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23    44.820386898  1129  U   
> N [kjournald] 1
> Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24    44.830135906     3  C   
> W 12583 + 8 [0]
> ...etc...


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: idle USB harddrive spins up with 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8
  2008-12-10 21:32 ` Andrew Morton
@ 2008-12-11 15:37   ` Alan Stern
  2008-12-11 16:43     ` CSights
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Alan Stern @ 2008-12-11 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrew Morton; +Cc: CSights, linux-kernel, linux-usb

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Andrew Morton wrote:

> (cc linux-usb)
> 
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 18:12:33 -0500
> CSights <csights@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> > Hi LKML,
> > 	I've got an IDE harddrive in a USB external enclosure. It is /dev/sda.
> > 	When I'm compiling the kernel or doing other things on /dev/hda1 the USB 
> > harddrive (sda1) will spin-up or not spin-down.  This happens with kernel 
> > versions 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8.
> > 	Also, I'm using laptop-mode-tools to turn on laptop mode.
> > 	I used the "btrace" script on /dev/sda while compiling a kernel on /dev/hda1.  
> > While running 2.6.26.8 btrace did not output anything.  With 2.6.27.8 and 
> > 2.6.28-rc7 a load of stuff was going on with /dev/sda.
> > 	I don't know what it means, but it is probably what is causing the harddrive 
> > to spin up. :)  Hopefully someone besides me will consider this 
> > a "regression".  Let me know if you need any other info.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 	C.
> > 
> > Using 2.6.26.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> > 	did not output anything.
> > 
> > Using 2.6.27.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1     0.000000000  1109  A  
> > WS 14375 + 8 <- (8,1) 14312
> > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000006705  1109  Q  
> > WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000043581  1109  G  
> > WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000065651  1109  P   
> > N [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000076267  1109  I   
> > W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000300318  1109  D   
> > W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000423518  1109  U   
> > N [kjournald] 1
> > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010028373     3  C   
> > W 14375 + 8 [0]
> > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9     3.219049689  1109  A  
> > WS 14383 + 8 <- (8,1) 14320
> > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10     3.219058350  1109  Q  
> > WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11     3.219095505  1109  G  
> > WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12     3.219115061  1109  P   
> > N [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13     3.219127074  1109  I   
> > W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14     3.219344699  1109  D   
> > W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15     3.219543607  1109  U   
> > N [kjournald] 1
> > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16     3.229477275     3  C   
> > W 14383 + 8 [0]
> > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17     8.372429561  1109  A  
> > WS 14391 + 8 <- (8,1) 14328
> > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18     8.372437663  1109  Q  
> > WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19     8.372474539  1109  G  
> > WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20     8.372496329  1109  P   
> > N [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21     8.372508063  1109  I   
> > W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22     8.372729320  1109  D   
> > W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23     8.372839669  1109  U   
> > N [kjournald] 1
> > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24     8.382665781     3  C   
> > W 14391 + 8 [0]
> > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       25    17.082110738  1109  A  
> > WS 14399 + 8 <- (8,1) 14336
> > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       26    17.082119119  1109  Q  
> > WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       27    17.082156834  1109  G  
> > WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       28    17.082180859  1109  P   
> > N [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       29    17.082193431  1109  I   
> > W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       30    17.082418878  1109  D   
> > W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       31    17.082527831  1109  U   
> > N [kjournald] 1
> > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       32    17.092196101     3  C   
> > W 14399 + 8 [0]
> > ...etc...
> > 
> > Using kernel 2.6.28-rc7, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1     0.000000000  1129  A  
> > WS 12567 + 8 <- (8,1) 12504
> > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000005587  1129  Q  
> > WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000038553  1129  G  
> > WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000061460  1129  P   
> > N [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000074032  1129  I   
> > W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000266235  1129  D   
> > W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000372394  1129  U   
> > N [kjournald] 1
> > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010619230     3  C   
> > W 12567 + 8 [0]
> > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9    41.770854333  1129  A  
> > WS 12575 + 8 <- (8,1) 12512
> > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10    41.770862156  1129  Q  
> > WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11    41.770895121  1129  G  
> > WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12    41.770917191  1129  P   
> > N [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13    41.770929483  1129  I   
> > W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14    41.771122524  1129  D   
> > W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15    41.771247680  1129  U   
> > N [kjournald] 1
> > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16    41.780654465     3  C   
> > W 12575 + 8 [0]
> > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17    44.820030708  1129  A  
> > WS 12583 + 8 <- (8,1) 12520
> > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18    44.820038530  1129  Q  
> > WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19    44.820069539  1129  G  
> > WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20    44.820091050  1129  P   
> > N [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21    44.820103622  1129  I   
> > W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22    44.820291914  1129  D   
> > W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23    44.820386898  1129  U   
> > N [kjournald] 1
> > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24    44.830135906     3  C   
> > W 12583 + 8 [0]
> > ...etc...

This is not a USB issue.  usb-storage merely passes on to the device 
the requests it gets from higher up.  If those requests cause the drive 
to spin-up or not spin-down, blame the higher-up subsystems.

Alan Stern


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: idle USB harddrive spins up with 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8
  2008-12-11 15:37   ` Alan Stern
@ 2008-12-11 16:43     ` CSights
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: CSights @ 2008-12-11 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrew Morton; +Cc: linux-kernel

Hi LKML,

> This is not a USB issue.  usb-storage merely passes on to the device
> the requests it gets from higher up.  If those requests cause the drive
> to spin-up or not spin-down, blame the higher-up subsystems.

	I am currently doing recompiles to see when the below problem first showed 
up.  The change in behavior started somewhere between 2.6.27.5 and 2.6.27.8 . 
Eventually I will be able to say that the change occurred somewhere between  
2.6.27.n and 2.6.27.n+1.  I'm using an old k6 233 mHz, so it might take a few 
days!
	I am not a kernel hacker, but I would guess there was some change in the 
journal code that causes it to "leak" journal commits to a non-active device 
when triggered by the activity of another device.

C.

> > > Hi LKML,
> > > 	I've got an IDE harddrive in a USB external enclosure. It is /dev/sda.
> > > 	When I'm compiling the kernel or doing other things on /dev/hda1 the
> > > USB harddrive (sda1) will spin-up or not spin-down.  This happens with
> > > kernel versions 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8.
> > > 	Also, I'm using laptop-mode-tools to turn on laptop mode.
> > > 	I used the "btrace" script on /dev/sda while compiling a kernel on
> > > /dev/hda1. While running 2.6.26.8 btrace did not output anything.  With
> > > 2.6.27.8 and 2.6.28-rc7 a load of stuff was going on with /dev/sda.
> > > 	I don't know what it means, but it is probably what is causing the
> > > harddrive to spin up. :)  Hopefully someone besides me will consider
> > > this a "regression".  Let me know if you need any other info.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > 	C.
> > >
> > > Using 2.6.26.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> > > 	did not output anything.
> > >
> > > Using 2.6.27.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1     0.000000000 
> > > 1109  A WS 14375 + 8 <- (8,1) 14312
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000006705 
> > > 1109  Q WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000043581 
> > > 1109  G WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000065651 
> > > 1109  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000076267 
> > > 1109  I W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000300318 
> > > 1109  D W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000423518 
> > > 1109  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010028373  
> > >   3  C W 14375 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9     3.219049689 
> > > 1109  A WS 14383 + 8 <- (8,1) 14320
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10     3.219058350 
> > > 1109  Q WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11     3.219095505 
> > > 1109  G WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12     3.219115061 
> > > 1109  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13     3.219127074 
> > > 1109  I W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14     3.219344699 
> > > 1109  D W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15     3.219543607 
> > > 1109  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16     3.229477275  
> > >   3  C W 14383 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17     8.372429561 
> > > 1109  A WS 14391 + 8 <- (8,1) 14328
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18     8.372437663 
> > > 1109  Q WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19     8.372474539 
> > > 1109  G WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20     8.372496329 
> > > 1109  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21     8.372508063 
> > > 1109  I W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22     8.372729320 
> > > 1109  D W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23     8.372839669 
> > > 1109  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24     8.382665781  
> > >   3  C W 14391 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       25    17.082110738 
> > > 1109  A WS 14399 + 8 <- (8,1) 14336
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       26    17.082119119 
> > > 1109  Q WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       27    17.082156834 
> > > 1109  G WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       28    17.082180859 
> > > 1109  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       29    17.082193431 
> > > 1109  I W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       30    17.082418878 
> > > 1109  D W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       31    17.082527831 
> > > 1109  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       32    17.092196101  
> > >   3  C W 14399 + 8 [0]
> > > ...etc...
> > >
> > > Using kernel 2.6.28-rc7, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on
> > > /dev/hda1 Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1    
> > > 0.000000000  1129  A WS 12567 + 8 <- (8,1) 12504
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000005587 
> > > 1129  Q WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000038553 
> > > 1129  G WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000061460 
> > > 1129  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000074032 
> > > 1129  I W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000266235 
> > > 1129  D W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000372394 
> > > 1129  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010619230  
> > >   3  C W 12567 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9    41.770854333 
> > > 1129  A WS 12575 + 8 <- (8,1) 12512
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10    41.770862156 
> > > 1129  Q WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11    41.770895121 
> > > 1129  G WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12    41.770917191 
> > > 1129  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13    41.770929483 
> > > 1129  I W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14    41.771122524 
> > > 1129  D W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15    41.771247680 
> > > 1129  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16    41.780654465  
> > >   3  C W 12575 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17    44.820030708 
> > > 1129  A WS 12583 + 8 <- (8,1) 12520
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18    44.820038530 
> > > 1129  Q WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19    44.820069539 
> > > 1129  G WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20    44.820091050 
> > > 1129  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21    44.820103622 
> > > 1129  I W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22    44.820291914 
> > > 1129  D W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23    44.820386898 
> > > 1129  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24    44.830135906  
> > >   3  C W 12583 + 8 [0]
> > > ...etc...

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: idle USB harddrive spins up with 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8
@ 2008-12-11 23:40 CSights
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: CSights @ 2008-12-11 23:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrew Morton; +Cc: linux-kernel

Hi LKML,
	The harddrive spin up issue I'm having (described below) does not occur in 
2.6.27.5 but does occur in 2.6.27.6 .
	One thing I didn't mention in my original email is that both /dev/sda1 
and /dev/hda1 are ext3 file systems.

Let me know if any other info is needed,
	C.

> > > 	I've got an IDE harddrive in a USB external enclosure. It is /dev/sda.
> > > 	When I'm compiling the kernel or doing other things on /dev/hda1 the
> > > USB harddrive (sda1) will spin-up or not spin-down.  This happens with
> > > kernel versions 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8.
> > > 	Also, I'm using laptop-mode-tools to turn on laptop mode.
> > > 	I used the "btrace" script on /dev/sda while compiling a kernel on
> > > /dev/hda1. While running 2.6.26.8 btrace did not output anything.  With
> > > 2.6.27.8 and 2.6.28-rc7 a load of stuff was going on with /dev/sda.
> > > 	I don't know what it means, but it is probably what is causing the
> > > harddrive to spin up. :)  Hopefully someone besides me will consider
> > > this a "regression".  Let me know if you need any other info.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > 	C.
> > >
> > > Using 2.6.26.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> > > 	did not output anything.
> > >
> > > Using 2.6.27.8, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on /dev/hda1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1     0.000000000 
> > > 1109  A WS 14375 + 8 <- (8,1) 14312
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000006705 
> > > 1109  Q WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000043581 
> > > 1109  G WS 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000065651 
> > > 1109  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000076267 
> > > 1109  I W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000300318 
> > > 1109  D W 14375 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000423518 
> > > 1109  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:32 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010028373  
> > >   3  C W 14375 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9     3.219049689 
> > > 1109  A WS 14383 + 8 <- (8,1) 14320
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10     3.219058350 
> > > 1109  Q WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11     3.219095505 
> > > 1109  G WS 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12     3.219115061 
> > > 1109  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13     3.219127074 
> > > 1109  I W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14     3.219344699 
> > > 1109  D W 14383 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15     3.219543607 
> > > 1109  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:35 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16     3.229477275  
> > >   3  C W 14383 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17     8.372429561 
> > > 1109  A WS 14391 + 8 <- (8,1) 14328
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18     8.372437663 
> > > 1109  Q WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19     8.372474539 
> > > 1109  G WS 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20     8.372496329 
> > > 1109  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21     8.372508063 
> > > 1109  I W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22     8.372729320 
> > > 1109  D W 14391 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23     8.372839669 
> > > 1109  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:40 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24     8.382665781  
> > >   3  C W 14391 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       25    17.082110738 
> > > 1109  A WS 14399 + 8 <- (8,1) 14336
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       26    17.082119119 
> > > 1109  Q WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       27    17.082156834 
> > > 1109  G WS 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       28    17.082180859 
> > > 1109  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       29    17.082193431 
> > > 1109  I W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       30    17.082418878 
> > > 1109  D W 14399 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       31    17.082527831 
> > > 1109  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 11:15:49 localhost logger:   8,0    0       32    17.092196101  
> > >   3  C W 14399 + 8 [0]
> > > ...etc...
> > >
> > > Using kernel 2.6.28-rc7, btrace of /dev/sda while compiling on
> > > /dev/hda1 Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        1    
> > > 0.000000000  1129  A WS 12567 + 8 <- (8,1) 12504
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        2     0.000005587 
> > > 1129  Q WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        3     0.000038553 
> > > 1129  G WS 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        4     0.000061460 
> > > 1129  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        5     0.000074032 
> > > 1129  I W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        6     0.000266235 
> > > 1129  D W 12567 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        7     0.000372394 
> > > 1129  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 17:48:37 localhost logger:   8,0    0        8     0.010619230  
> > >   3  C W 12567 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0        9    41.770854333 
> > > 1129  A WS 12575 + 8 <- (8,1) 12512
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       10    41.770862156 
> > > 1129  Q WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       11    41.770895121 
> > > 1129  G WS 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       12    41.770917191 
> > > 1129  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       13    41.770929483 
> > > 1129  I W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       14    41.771122524 
> > > 1129  D W 12575 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       15    41.771247680 
> > > 1129  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 17:49:19 localhost logger:   8,0    0       16    41.780654465  
> > >   3  C W 12575 + 8 [0]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       17    44.820030708 
> > > 1129  A WS 12583 + 8 <- (8,1) 12520
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       18    44.820038530 
> > > 1129  Q WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       19    44.820069539 
> > > 1129  G WS 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       20    44.820091050 
> > > 1129  P N [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       21    44.820103622 
> > > 1129  I W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       22    44.820291914 
> > > 1129  D W 12583 + 8 [kjournald]
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       23    44.820386898 
> > > 1129  U N [kjournald] 1
> > > Dec  9 17:49:22 localhost logger:   8,0    0       24    44.830135906  
> > >   3  C W 12583 + 8 [0]
> > > ...etc...

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2008-12-11 23:41 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-12-09 23:12 idle USB harddrive spins up with 2.6.28-rc7 and 2.6.27.8, but not with 2.6.26.8 CSights
2008-12-10 21:32 ` Andrew Morton
2008-12-11 15:37   ` Alan Stern
2008-12-11 16:43     ` CSights
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2008-12-11 23:40 CSights

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